So that's the difference. As far as I can remember, a lot of people watching the college bowl intently knew two things: 1. 2013 was very weak draft for QBs. 2. 2014 had a number of real good QB prospects coming out. This was why I hated Geno pick. He slid for a reason. Not impressive enough - and now with attitude problem. What's not to like, eh? [And we all saw how these things played out here in NY.] On top of that, 1 more season and very strong QB draft was coming up. Patience would have paid handsome dividend at that time. So - I can understand why they picked Geno, but I didn't agree with that. [Personally, I would have rolled Sanchez one more season if I had been drafting at that time frame.]
I agree, that's why I'm changing my opinion on Mahomes. One of our Posters, Martin-and the jets, put together the chart of the QBs from Texas Tech, they have all been big statistical QBs, 5,000 yards per season, lots of TDs. None of them have transitioned into NFL QBs. (Billy Joe Tolliver) Not saying Mahomes isn't going to make it, and I do like some things that he does, just maybe not a 6th overall pick.
I agree. Second round at best. Honestly this year I'm skipping QB (unless Watson fell to round 2 or even a trade up into late round 1, I'd take that). Trade Richardson for McCarron and let's work with the young'uns on the roster already. Next year regroup and reevaluate.
Sorry, Pulse, but I totally disagree with this. Even putting Brady and Sanchez in a remote comparison is ridiculous. Sanchez isn't a scab on Brady's ass. He would not or at least should not, be the Jets QB today. He doesn't have the mental ability.
Wentz should have gone before Goff last year. IMO Goff doesn't have an NFL arm. I think you're wrong about Kizer. I think he's a terrible prospect. I wouldn't take him at all.
As Buggs Bunny used to say, "What a Maroon!" The Jets aren't trading up to take any of these QBs. If they do, Mac should be shot, not fired.
As desperate as the Jets are for a FQB, imo there is NO justification for taking a QB at #6. I like Mahomes, but not at #6.
agree...I wouldn't even have him on my board. I would have mahomes, trubinsky watson, kayaa, petersen, and webb.
ugh.....wolf had a boner for favre and he cashed in eventually. funny thing is why didn't the jets use that knowledge and trade for favre themselves. so many what ifs with this team.
When people quote Wolf, I don't think they understand what exactly he meant by that philosophy of selecting a QB every draft. He was not a proponent of selecting a QB with a high draft pick in every draft at the expense of a better pick that could help the team immediately like Mac has done with Petty and Hack. Mac can draft another QB, hopefully in the later rounds, but TB has to develope the young guys that Mac brings in, the jets are missing the second part of Wolfs philosophy, the HC who develops the QB. You guys need to read this article when you have a chance to understand Ron Wolfs philosophy. Mac is doing it wrong based on Wolfs philosophy, based on Wolfs philosophy the jets should not select a QB with this year's number 6 pick, they should select a player that can help the team immediately and not sit on the bench, TB needs to develope the young kids and the jets should select a QB in the later rounds of the draft this year. The legacy and lessons of Hall of Fame GM Ron Wolf’s time with the Green Bay Packers live on today. Twenty years before becoming Kansas City Chiefs general manager, in the mid 1990s, John Dorsey was a 30-something scout with the Packers. He often found himself up late, memorizing college players’ 40 times and arm lengths. His boss, Ron Wolf, was demanding but never asked anyone to do something he wouldn’t do himself. Wolf visited colleges’ spring workouts and produced scouting reports. So when Wolf quizzed his department on a player’s numbers, he expected them to be prepared. “He was willing to teach as much as you were willing to learn,” Dorsey says. “And you know you did well when he’d say, ‘Hey, let’s go for a drive.’ We’d drive to lunch, or just drive around, and that was a moment where it was one-on-one time outside of the office, a unique way for him to find out about us and teach us something at the same time.” Two decades before he became Raiders GM, Reggie McKenzie was a 30-something pro personnel assistant for the Packers, a former player studying hours of film to get a better understanding of the personnel trade. Wolf often told McKenzie he had a gift. And to show faith, one day Wolf called McKenzie into his office. “He said, ‘Hey, why don’t you call this agent about an undrafted free agent,’” McKenzie recalls. “Now he didn’t ask me to go negotiate a multimillion-dollar deal, but he empowered me to make a football move for us. He then asked my opinion on a minimum-salary guy, then later on bringing in a practice squad player. Ron empowered me, and that experience was invaluable in [becoming] the executive I became today.” In the mid 1990s, Redskins general manager Scot McCloughan and Seahawks GM John Schneider were 20-something scouts with Green Bay while current Packers general manager Ted Thompson was director of player personnel. “For many of us, we only know one way of doing it, the Ron Wolf way,” Dorsey says. “Many decisions we make here [with the Chiefs] are rooted in what I learned in Green Bay.” As The MMQB embarks on Green Bay Week—delving into the culture and tradition of one of America’s most cherished (and secluded) NFL cities—we would be remiss not to write about the father of the modern Packers model. In 1991, Wolf inherited a franchise stuck in the mire. From 1992 to 2002 he engineered a robust turnaround, including seven consecutive winning seasons, six straight playoff appearances and a Super Bowl. Wolf is often lauded for three transformative personnel moves: hiring Mike Holmgren as coach, trading for quarterback Brett Favre and signing defensive end Reggie White, coinciding with the birth of free agency. Wolf’s most notable stamp on modern scouting is his view on quarterbacks: While there’s only room for one starter, you can never acquire too many. In Wolf’s world, it is worthwhile to draft a QB every year, no matter the current roster situation. “Looking now from afar, the best quarterback in the game is a sixth-round draft choice [Tom Brady], and that should alert everybody,” Wolf says. “Then you look at what the Cowboys have accomplished with a fourth-round draft choice. I mean, it tells you what you should do. Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it.” Consider that in seven out of eight drafts from 1992 to ’99, Wolf drafted a quarterback, even after Brett Favre was entrenched as the starter. “I learned very early in this game, if you don’t have a quarterback, you don’t have a chance,” Wolf said. “We were very lucky that we had a unique quarterback that never missed a game. But that didn’t stop me from drafting in late rounds. It’s the premiere position, and you better be able to cover yourself.” In acquiring extra arms—among them Ty Detmer (1992 ninth round), Mark Brunell (’93 fifth round), Matt Hasselbeck (’98 sixth round) and Aaron Brooks (’99 fourth round), all of whom became starters for other teams—Wolf says he was bringing in players to challenge Favre. But more importantly, he was looking for raw talent to cultivate for backup roles, or to dangle for a trade and acquire even more draft picks. “As long as you have the good coaches willing to take the time to develop, that model can work,” says Dorsey, who has taken QBs in two of his four drafts with the Chiefs. “You’re not picking a quarterback every year just to stockpile them,” says McKenzie, who drafted Connor Cook in last year’s fourth round even with budding 25-year-old star Derek Carr and 26-year-old backup Matt McGloin already under contract. “But I have to say Ron Wolf's philosophy was most ingrained in me, in the process of picking Conor Cook. Even though we have a starter, and a backup for another year or two, that’s beside the point. If you have a guy ranked high in the draft, and he somehow falls to you, you don’t say, ‘Well, I need a receiver, so I'm going to take a guy that's much lesser ranked [on our draft board] than a quarterback.’ You take the quarterback, especially in the late round, over a need position and hope he gives you some value. “That’s how important the position is. Ron always taught us to not see what’s right in front of you, but look down the road. That’s what we did with Aaron Brooks and Matt Hasselbeck, and what I did with Connor Cook.” In evaluating the 2017 draft class, this strategy could be prominent. There are no surefire franchise quarterbacks, or even surefire first-round picks, as teams could be reaching for Deshaun Watson or Mitch Trubisky, DeShone Kizer or Brad Kaaya should any of the underclassmen declare early. However, there is a plethora of intriguing talent deeper in the pool, including Davis Webb of California, Pat Mahomes of Texas Tech, Nate Peterman of Pittsburgh, Taysom Hill of BYU, Mason Rudolph of Oklahoma State and Seth Russell of Baylor. Which, naturally, brings up this question: How does a team determine who is worth taking a flier on? “It’s blind luck,” Wolf said. “If I knew how to put together a quarterback, I’d have my own island somewhere. “People would come to me, show me tape, and we’d discuss this and that. There’s just no question it has always been a difficult position to evaluate. When I was growing up, when the Colts came back to pro football in 1953, there were 12 teams in the league. I’d say seven had quarterbacks, and five didn’t. Now if you look at the 32 teams, maybe half have quarterbacks, and half don’t. Sometimes you don’t know what a guy has in college until you bring him in. Take Hasselbeck—we always thought he had a good arm and he was smart, but once he was in our building we realized we had someone a heck of a lot better than a sixth-round draft choice.” Wolf’s other lasting legacy is an insistence on a home-grown roster. Even as he ushered in the free agency era with the seismic Reggie White addition, the Packers famously build their roster through the draft. This has been emphasized under Thompson. Currently, despite a roster ravaged by injuries, only five players on Green Bay’s two-deep ever appeared in a game with another team (OLB Julius Peppers, DL Letroy Guion, TE Jared Cook, P Jacob Schum and recently signed RB Christine Michael). Last year Press Gazette Media crunched the numbers to find that between 2005 and ’15, Thompson drafted 104 players, and Green Bay led the NFL with 1,860 starts and 3,267 games played from players it had drafted—119 more starts and 106 more games played by such players than any other NFL team. “We discovered early on that it was better to keep your own than get somebody else’s,” Wolf says. “You know truly what you have when you’re playing your own.” Explains The MMQB’s Andrew Brandt, who spent nine years as vice president of the Packers: “It works because coaches have to be able to trust and play younger players. The theory Ron used was, if you get a veteran as a backup, then you’re stunting the growth of one of your potential future assets.” Consider that after last year’s wild-card loss, Washington’s McCloughan bucked the Dan Snyder-era trend of spending big in free agency. McCloughan made no significant moves until April, when All-Pro corner Josh Norman unexpectedly sprouted on the market. “The reason I waited,” McCloughan told me in an interview last spring, “is because I was taught by Ron Wolf. And if you’re taught by Ron Wolf, you understand the importance of patience.”
Second part Of course, Wolf wasn’t totally frugal. Among his mantras was, Identify what needs to be fixed, then go fix it. And he understood there was a time for everything. “You want to do what Ted Thompson does, but his team was already built,” McKenzie says. “I was in the process of building mine, I got to the point where I got the contract and salary cap worked out to get some leadership in here. I already had Carr and Khalil [Mack], so I could go out and get Donald Penn and Justin Tuck that could show what leadership is like. If you don't bring in the right guys, free agency isn't going to work. That's what Ron understood—you need to do what you need to do to make it work. Even in the Super Bowl year of ’96, we claimed a guy like Andre Rison, traded for Eugene Robinson, spent a little money and got Andre Dotson as an unrestricted free agent. You don't get a whole bunch, but you’re smart about it. And then you try to stick to the draft and develop plan as much as possible.” There’s monetary benefit to younger (and therefore cheaper) players. But there’s tremendous value in molding college players—especially significant now as NFL coaches gripe about the growing divide, stylistically, between the college and NFL games. “No question,” Dorsey says, “if you can keep a player in your system, with your coaches, it makes you better off.” “The whole time I was there we never lost a player [to free agency] we really wanted [to keep], that was really important to me,” Wolf says. “Except for one, because it became a bigger money issue.” That player? Craig Hentrich, a punter. “The framework of the game changed dramatically since when I was there, just starting in free agency, and now there are so many avenues open to acquiring players,” Wolf says. “But scouting? In scouting, really nothing has changed. “Either players can play or they can’t. Either you can evaluate or you can’t. I’d say the access has changed in terms of being able to gather more tape, see film of college players from more angles, but the true principles have remained the same.”
Its a matter of perspective. Your right to a degree, but I will put a couple of points forward. First off, I agree the worst Tom Brady is still better than the best Mark Sanchez. Brady is the greatest of all time. Comparing 99% of NFL QB's to Brady is ridiculous. However.... How much of Brady is Belichick? McDaniels? How much of Sanchez was Ryan? Shitnheimer, Sparano? Sanchez' stats improved each year in his first three years but took a nosedive under Sparano. Hmm... The fact that (as he even said) Brady has played so long in the same offense that he can anticipate everything a defense can throw at him? How much of Sanchez sucking is due to him getting his head banged in on an unflagged late hit at Pittsburgh in 2011? Losing Cotchery, Keller and Edwards who he had good chemistry with and gaining Holmes who he clashed with? Sanchez played well in the playoffs. The Jets would have went to the Superbowl in 2010 had the Jet Defense not sucked an egg against Pitt. Sanchez was 20 for 33 with 2 TD's in that game and almost rallied the Jets back for the win. The 2009 and 10 Jets were the best Jet teams in my adult life. Sanchez was a weaker link on these teams, but he wasn't a liability, either. He played well at times and bailed out the defense and played clutch on numerous occasions. In 2014 and 2015 Sanchez had a completion percentage of 64%, which is higher than any Jet QB since Brett Favre in 2008 and higher than Brady's career average. He had it in him to play better QB. The Jets completely screwed him up. I know the limitations of Sanchez, but he was a good kid who gave this fan some enjoyment for a few years. But he crashed and burned like most Jet and NFL QB's do. Common story. I dont get why the Jet fanbase shits on him so much. The buttfumble?
It's possible that this draft is as bad as 2013. Not likely, but possible. I don't think Kizer is a good prospect, just like I didn't like Bortles in 2014. However if NFL teams are still looking for the big QB he's the big QB in this draft that has 1st round potential. All the other names are 6'2" despite their college lists of 6'3" plus.
Packers are the absolute true model franchise. Jets don't need a HC that knows how to develop a QB as he has a staff, it's about opportunity. Bowles needs to understand that when you have 2 young guys on your roster you need to see what you have in them. Perhaps the Jets shouldn't acquire a vet and just draft one like Kaaya in the later rounds. With this in mind, I don't think the Jets have that level of QB coaching where they can confidently evaluate 3 young QBs on the roster in 1 year. Perhaps maybe 1 or two ... but 3 and to divide the reps? That might be too much for the Jets to bare at once ... Jets definitely shouldn't take one at 6. Gotta get that impact player.
I'm sure some folks get hung up on the buttfumble. To me the problem with Sanchez was always that he could make an amazing pass to his first read if the guy had half a step, but he couldn't get the ball within 5 yards of a wide open RB on a check down, and if he did manage to work though his progression, he had, more than any QB I've ever seen, the amazing ability to always throw the ball low and behind any receiver crossing the field. I found him to be the most infuriating QB to watch, maybe ever. Jeff George was the most bewildering, and Mark Sanchez was the most infuriating.
You make some good points, and perhaps you're right the Jets screwed him up. I'll definitely agree that they didn't help him any with the moves they made or the clueless tools they had at HC and OC. I just never wanted him in the first place. I didn't think he was good enough to take in the 1st round, much less trade up for. The article's gone now (I think it was on Ourlads), but there was a great article prior to that draft that showed the abysmal success rate of underclassmen QBs in the NFL. Up to that time, I think only one had ever succeeded, the rest were busts or mediocre. Matthew Stafford was the only QB I thought had a chance in that 2009 Draft. I thought Josh Freeman was awful as well.
Well, I agree that Sanchez was drafted too high and as Pete Carroll said he should have stayed in USC for another year. Which is also why I treat his first years as a Jet more like his senior year of college. He needed to develop more, both his mechanics and his head. And this is why I dont get people on this board complaining about how the Jets are handling Petty and Hack now. They were lower draft pics that required time to grow within an NFL system for a chance to be successful. Petty may be ready this season, but I see no reason to rush Hack. He is only 22yo. And if they draft a QB early and pencil him in as starter that will be a disaster.
why? he has the size, has the arm. he was talked about as the smartest guy on the field all year last year, he was given a lot of responsibility for making reads both pre snap and post snap. im honestly interested. I would say what you said about mahomes, to me he played in an offense that was full of very simple reads and just threw the ball around. he doesn't impress me much at all.
