Regarding your statement I bolded - yeah, that's pretty much what you said: "But If I'm Mac, and particularly if I'm Bowles, and my seat is getting hot, I bet on having one very good unit and one very bad unit over two bad units" Now if you're saying that's not what YOU would do, and you were only saying what you think Macc and Bowles would do, okay, but whoever's philosophy that is, it's a bad one. And I hate to throw your own words back at you, but you DID say: "The Jets could even have a decent record until the injuries pile up..." As to the Pats and Steelers not having had top 5 picks, yet still being great franchises, yeah, I would agree, they are exceptions...because they have owners and management that actually know what they're doing. You're right too, that having a top 5 pick by itself doesn't save you from ineptitude, but when you combine ineptitude with mediocre draft picks, THAT is a recipe for long term failure. Finally, were did you read that I recommended "tanking"?
I gotta respectfully disagree with much of this post. I love Mahomes, and I'm leaning more and more towards wanting the Jets to maneuver so they can get him. I agree concerning Ramczyk, especially since he's coming off of hip surgery. I think adding Adams or Hooker would help the team a great deal, but I also think Reuben Foster or Fournette could help the team a great deal as well and all be a great value. If Mahomes is rated that high, then he would be a great pick. I definitely want an OLB, but don't think Barnett can successfully play the position in the NFL. He's too heavy. I think he's a 4-3 DE. Even if he could be a great 3-4 OLB and the Jets added him and a FS, I still don't think the D would be great because of Rodgers and Bowles. I understand what you're saying about Bowles wanting to keep his job, and what he probably wants Mac to do, but I hope Mac does what's best for the team and not just what it takes to save Bowles' job. As far as I'm concerned, Bowles has lost his own job with his decisions, and lack of having the team prepared and not holding players accountable. Peppers? Seriously? He doesn't even have a true position. I don't care what kind of athleticism or speed he has, imo he shouldn't even be considered in the top 20, much less top 10. If Mac were to take him at #6, I'd want Mac fired immediately and not even let him finish the draft. He's gonna be a project at whatever position he winds up playing. The Jets have had enough of those types to last several lifetimes. I wouldn't even think of taking Peppers before the 4th round.
Guy, you're smarter than that. Some other people have posted that mindless crap here before, but I didn't expect it coming from you. When you have a great GM and scouting dept., a great coaching staff and stability, and perhaps most importantly, have a FQB, you don't have to draft in the top 5 or 10 to be very good or great. But when you've been down as long as the Jets have, have the holes they have, the crappy CS they have, and the sorry GMs they've had that have wasted so many picks, and don't have your FQB, drafting at the top of the draft is your only hope and salvation. Trying to claim that the odds of finding the best players are just as good at the bottom of rounds as at the top is just flat out ridiculous and totally lacking in any kind of sense. Can good, if not great, players be found in lower rounds and even as UDFAs? Yes, but it takes a lot of skill and luck, and the CS to develop them. The odds of finding those kinds of players in lower rounds or at the bottom of rounds is MUCH lower than it is drafting at the top of rounds. Who are the QBs, GMs and HCs of those teams with the top 5 picks? Look at those and you'll know why those teams haven't won a Lombardi Trophy.
This is exactly my point. Getting the top pick isn't the answer, hiring the right GM and the right HC is the answer. Until the Jets get there, it absolutely does not matter how many top draft picks they waste.
Wow guy. The bold is what I'm saying. Pretty sure I spelled it out more than once. Acknowledging the possibility that the Jets COULD have a decent record if they add a pass rush and stay injury free means that I advocate them trying to be mediocre? Okay, got it. I agree with your assessment that management and ownership are the keys to actually making things work. My question is this: How are the Pats and Steelers the EXCEPTIONS to the rule? Certainly they are outliers in the league, but who are the great franchises that pick in the top 5 all the time? This is the part I'm not seeing.
Well, you and I have never disagreed over prospects before, have we? Thanks for at least understanding that my previous posts are trying to look at this from Mac/Bowles point of view, not from my own as a fan.
Getting the right GM and HC is important, but lesser HCs have won a SB with a FQB and a great GM (think the Ravens, the Giants, and others). Unless the GM is a total loser, top draft picks supply your team with talent and a better chance to get a FQB. The FQB is more important than the HC in winning. Lots of mediocre HCs have won a lot of games and even gotten to and won a SB riding the coattails of a FQB.
I guess the question is what do you want? A flash in the pan SB win or a perennial contender? How many QBs have won SBs under multiple HCs? I can't think of any, but maybe I've forgotten some. How many HCs have won SBs with different QBs? Gibbs, Parcells, anybody else? Maybe the answer for all of these is "not many", in which case, maybe it doesn't matter, and the Jets should just take whatever they can get when they can get it.
You make it sound like if we have top 2-3 draft position in 2018 we won't get the HC or GM we need. It's not an either or matter. Getting top 2-3 draft position in the 2018 draft will NOT preclude us from getting the kind of HC we need. We may already have the GM we need. Your last sentence is spot on. Right now, we have little or no reason to have hope for the future. If we can get rid of Bowles, get our FQB, or fix our OL and fix a number of our holes and depth, at least we'll have some reason for hope. If Mac gets to hire his own HC, we may get the HC we need. Unless or until we get some of our holes fixed and a reasonable facsimile of a FQB, we're probably not going to be able to get the HC we want. Why should any great HC prospect (experienced or otherwise) want to come here with no QB, holes all over the place, no depth, and have to build everything from the ground up? One step at a time, my man, one step at a time. I think we may have our GM, although there is reason for doubt. If not, he goes with Bowles at the end of the season. If we do, we should see a number of our holes fixed and depth improved following FA and the draft this year. We may also see our #1 need, QB fixed if our GM doesn't bring in someone like Cutler, Romo, or someone of that level.
I'll keep that in mind. I can't say I've seen a situation where a team just kept performing poorly and drafting so well that their roster just became a siren call for a great coach. I have, however, seen Belichick, Parcells, and Walsh take over bad teams and turn them into winners. The problem is, always, that you don't know who the next Bill Walsh is until you take a chance on a new face. That new face could turn out to be the next Rich Kotite instead. Bowles hasn't been good, but the way his Arizona D performed in the face of about 355 injuries at the end of his tenure made him worth taking a bet on. Why the guy could adapt to playing guys off the street but can't make halftime adjustments is beyond me. In case you can't tell, the Jets have left me somewhat sour for the moment. I'll put my green-tinted glasses back on at some point and be less gloomy.
Okay. Thanks for clarifying. And I completely agree, and have posted it here many times, that until we get new ownership and management, much of this activity is just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Still, what else can we do but try to vent our frustrations in places like this? Sorry if I offended, I tried not to, but I apologize.
Never worry about that with me. Internet Forums exist so we can disagree and learn something, right? That said, apologies for getting frustrated--that's all on me.
I totally understand gloomy! I'm not very optimistic right now myself. In all seriousness, if Mac doesn't have a good FA period and draft, I will probably tune out for 2017, and then if Bowles and Mac aren't fired, then I'm done with the team. If they trade for or sign Cutler, I'm done. I still have a small sliver of hope. The recent signs that the Jets are going to do a complete rebuild rather than a competitive rebuild have given me some hope, but I want to see Revis, Gilchrist, B. Marshal and Richardson gone before I become more optimistic. I could be wrong but imo I don't think a quality HC will go to a team with no talent and no QB. In the threads we've had over the last year or two discussing Bowles and the HC position, that seems to be the opinion of most posters as well. For certain, I think a quality experienced HC wouldn't come here unless we had some pieces in place already and he knew he had a chance to turn things around quickly. I agree that Bowles seemed to be a good, if not great HC candidate at the time he was hired. He hasn't turned out to be a good one, and I have no hope that he will this season. My only hope is that if Mac is as good as I have thought he is, that Woody will allow Mac to hire Bowles' successor, that HC will report to Mac, and that Mac will hire an experienced HC.
It wasn't that long ago that there GM was on the hotseat. Now, the Raiders have become a potential superbowl contender and all indicates to a bright future. I'm not a big of Mac, but sometimes all it takes is just a lucky draft to get the engine rolling. Obviously, that;s easier said than done, but it's certainly possible
I'm not down with tuning out. I'm not built that way. That said, Cutler might make me gouge my eyes out. I still have hope for Bowles, but hell, I still have hope for Rex (I know, but hey, I was right about Pete Carrol!), so that doesn't count for a lot. Agreed that Revis, Gilchrist, Marshall, and Richardson all need to go. Glad Breno is gone. I know everyone wants that established, experienced, quality HC. I don't think that guy comes around-- how many have there been that have been winning HCs at more than two teams in league history? Bill Parcells, Chuck Knox, George Allen, and Marty Schottenheimer? Who am I missing?
