I just don't agree with that not in the cards for us mentality...No more damn excuses, scout and research your asses off and pick a potential franchise QB. There's probably atleast one out there in this draft that we will have a chance to draft...good chance it might be during the second round or later
All I'm saying is that if the Jets give up their 2018 1st at this point and if 2018 is the next year of the QB (2004, 2012, ???) and if the Jets have a crappy season and a top 3 pick, well there aren't very many ways to recover from that and spending money on free agents will already be a non-option due to Mo Wilk, Cousins, Leo Williams coming due etc. The Jets have already tried many things to get a QB. They've signed the best available QB to a premium contract (Neil O'Donnell). They've signed vet FA's on the downside of their career and watched them recover some (Vinny Testaverde). They've drafted a guy in the 1st on the general principle that you should always know who the heir apparent is if you don't have a primetime franchise QB (Chad Pennington). They've traded for a great veteran QB when he became available despite the knowledge that he was a short-term solution at best (Brett Favre). They've traded up in the 1st for a QB who was not the best prospect of the class (Mark Sanchez). They've taken multiple 2nd rounders outside of the hotzone and watched them turn in backup quality QB's (Kellen Clemens, Geno Smith and probably Christian Hackenberg - although it is not clear at this point that Hack is good enough to stick in the NFL). The next step in this sequence is not to trade a lot of value for a midrange QB so that you can then sign him to one of the largest QB contracts. Of course the Jets are free to explore that option but if they do, well the hurt is likely to keep on coming because Cousins isn't Drew Brees, and even if he was Drew Brees - the Saints have gone 7-9 4 out of the last 5 years since they finally had to pay Brees like he was one of the best QB's in the NFL. The Jets would be paying Cousins like he was Drew Brees. It's not hard to see that turning into 5 to 7 wins a year for the life of the contract.
I think you need to take a step back, and instead of trying to justify giving Cousins - or the Skins - anything like what you're proposing, ask yourself: Is Cousins really worth that, or am I just reacting to what other teams are doing? Just because the Texans got stupid, and other teams are inflating veteran QB value, doesn't mean the Jets have to accept that valuation. Yes, they sure do need a FQB, but they will NEVER find one in somebody else's trash heap. If they want one, they're going to have to find and develop one on their own. This may mean that the current management and coaching has to go away and be replaced with people who know how to do this, but it's the only way. And if they are truly doing a "full gut job", it makes more sense to start completely fresh with players not spoiled by another system.
I agree with Br4d, and others, that it makes the most sense to wait until the 2nd or 3rd round to try and grab somebody like Mahomes, but that is dependent on all the other teams agreeing that Mahomes is a 2nd or 3rd round value. This is where I disagree. I think given the ever-growing demand for good QBs, teams are reaching, and this means that QBs who in the past might've slipped into the 2nd, 3rd, or even later rounds are being grabbed early. I think that Brady is responsible for this in a way: who wouldn't grab a guy like him in the top 10 picks today? In any case, I really don't think Mahomes will be there, maybe even at the 6, given the demand and hype. The Jets really need to do due diligence and vet him (or Watson) if they're even thinking about a QB, and if he passes this vetting, they need to take him before anyone else does. If he lives up to the expectation, great, they have their FQB for 10-15 years; if not, they rinse and repeat until they strike gold. The alternative is to sit tight and hope he or Watson falls through to them in the 2nd or 3rd, and if not, pass on QB this year, and hope they have a record "worthy" of a top 1 or 2 pick next year, which means 0-16 or at best 2-14. Does anyone think that given Bowles's job (and maybe Macc's) job on the line that they'll do that badly? I don't. It's been over 20 years since the Jets did that badly, and this last year's schedule was brutal, worse than it will be this year, so the probability is that they'll actually have a better record, and therefore worse draft position. So much for being able to grab your FQB in the next draft! The thing is, I don't think Macc is looking at QB as a primary need, which depresses the hell out of me. I think he will sign a vet like Taylor, Glennon, maybe even Cousins (UGH!), and he'll try to build around him as the shortest path to winning. And it might be the shortest path to getting to 8-8, 9-7, 10-6, but it will be a path to the wilderness far from the SB.
Taylor and Cousins aren't going to go 8-8 with the Jets next year. They're going to go 6-10/7-9 with luck and 4-12 without it.
I think you're not factoring in a softer schedule, and presumably some upgrade in offensive talent around them - Fournette, Cook, Howard, and improved (not by much) OL. What if the Jets had either of them instead of Fitz last year, even with the tougher schedule? They would've likely been 7-9, 8-8, don't you think? So I think they could achieve that this year, even with this team. But even if they go 4-12, that might not get them "invited to the QB Ball" next year, and then what? Less money for FAs, and lesser quality draft picks, and here we go again into the cycle of poor-to-mediocre this franchise has almost patented.
Don't think it's suicide at all. It's a sound strategy if you don't have a FQB. Once you get your guy, you can build around him which, granted, may take a bit longer because you will have traded away a lot of high picks to get to No. 1. Nevertheless, most of the greats have played well into their 30's so time is on your side. The only caveat is that you better make sure the guy you're going after is "can't miss."
To add on...it's not the preferred path you want to take, but it's waaaay better than over-paying for someone else's trash, which really is suicide because it leaves you without the resources to improve, not to mention - what if he doesn't work out? That;s never happened to the Jets has it?
Nice history lesson...I wonder if TGG has members who are old enough to have witnessed whats transpired for the Jets One day we will get a Russel Wilson and the draft has gotta be the answer That moron Idzik had a chance to grab us a Mettenburger Bridgewater or Carr in THAT draft ....muffed opportunities!! Just a matter of time before we hit on another Pennington ( a Rnd 1 QB) Sanchez (RNd 1 QB) didn't play enough imo and that would make him a present day Trubinsky..so scratch that choice but I am locked into drafting a QB every year if necessary
Though you may not approve of Cousins or what it would take to acquire him, his production, numbers, and film do not reflect your interpretation of his level of talent. At some point it's no longer subjective. I think what the Texans did was incompetent and not based on enough information. Cousins however has 2 full seasons of film and 14 games in the years prior to assess the decision. You guys make it sound like all they have to do is buckle down and really do their homework and we'll have our next franchise QB. Like they're not already doing this, like all teams aren't doing this. There's a reason David Carr, Russell Wilson, David Johnson were passed up by every team in the NFL and some teams with QB or RB needs more than once. The process is beyond difficult, thousands of seasoned eyes and brains spend countless hours trying to formulate a recognition of a successful player. The issue is there's no way to know how their skills will translate from college to the NFL. That's why players like Cousins so rarely hit the open market unless it's a vet put out to pasture, because they are now a proven commodity. Give me the well above average bird-in-the-hand over the potential great bird-in-the-bush. Blake Bortles couldn't hold Cousins jock but he was a top 3 QB. As stated we'll probably be right around pick #5-10 in 2018, we would have to trade up to get #1 or 2 anyways costing much more than it would for Cousins on a prospect. Even if we had the #1 overall and could guarantee that who we pick would be as good as good as Andrew Luck or Matt Stafford, how did that really work out for those teams? They were both in a rebuilding transition mode and didn't have to trade or relinquish their picks, and those guys made it through their rookie deals and both have mega deals now with varying results in that time between. Do I really believe "it's not in our cards" mentality, not really. It's just a matter of how long are you willing to watch talented players peak, fade, and leave, great teams (NYJ teams) constructed with no one to lead them before you take measures into your own hands?
I've been around since the Jets were the Titans and have lived through all of their futility. Which is why I have little patience for "waiting until a FQB falls into our laps". I used to have a cartoon taped to my desk - it showed two vultures sitting on a tree limb overlooking the desert with absolutely nothing out there, and one says to the other: "Fuck this waiting. Let's go kill something". I feel like one of those vultures. So this is why I'm leading the cheering for Mahomes (or Watson, 1B) NOW. Forget Trubisky...at best he's a project and we have two of them already. I know I'm in the minority here, but Sanchez could have been good enough if they hadn't let all the talent around him disappear. In hindsight he sure wasn't worth trading up to get, and there's a valuable lesson there to be learned regarding Trubisky. And I'm with you on drafting a QB until you strike gold.
How would you feel right now if he'd gotten us Bridgewater or Mettenburger? How would you feel if we'd taken the only guy with superstar bling potential in that draft and gotten shafted by Manziel's dealers like the Browns did? We'd be running Bridgewater out of town, even if he hadn't got hurt, because the offense would be stalling inside the 20 too often. We saw this happen with Chad Pennington after a few injuries, when the only throw he could make into the endzone once the Jets hit the redzone was the corner fade. Mettenburger would be gone by now, just like Geno is. The problem with the QB's in 2014 was that none of them were blue chip prospects and so although one of them would likely hit sorting him out from all the chaff was going to be a problem.
There wouldn't be 4 QB's on the roster after camp ended. Just the guy the Jets drafted this year plus the best 2 of the remaining 3.
Yes, and I think that maybe they're so deep into the "forest" of stats, they fail to see the "trees", i.e. what's right in front of them. Seriously, take the time to watch the video analysis I posted about Mahomes. Like ANY draftee, there are no guarantees, but if you look at how he handles himself under pressure, and how he can manufacture things out of nothing simply because of his physical gifts, those are two things that all the great QBs possess. Does this mean he'll become great? Of course not, but you can't teach these things, whereas you can teach/imprive accuracy and footwork, two of the more common "preferred traits" looked for in QBs. Give me Mahomes and his qualities over Trubisky, Kizer, and others like them every time. To paraphrase a common coaching axiom: "You can't coach Height or Speed", meaning you can't add by coaching physical gifts - Mahomes has the best physical gifts of any QB in the draft, paired with an understanding of how to win, another trait often overlooked. Yes, if it was easy to identify, we wouldn't see all the busts over the years, but that's no reason to stop trying. And to your point, that Cousins has a "proven" body of work: If it's such an outstanding resume, why wouldn't Washington keep him and play him? Answer: Because it isn't proof that he's good enough to take them to the SB, and if so, why should the Jets almost bankrupt themselves for him?
That's the GMs job to figure out,,its why he is paid the big bucks Idzik was stuck on his "boy" Geno which he already drafted,,,despite early warning signs of sucking big time I think you make some good points but to tell ya truth I could have lived with a Teddy b and a Mettenburger come what may compared to what we have now Manziel was a known koo koo bird so only the Browns were that desperate to take him
And yet, he was drafted at 22! So talk of Mahomes and Watson falling to the 2nd or 3rd rounds is not realistic. If the Jets decide they need a QB, and one of these two is their guy, they need to take him at the 6, or forget taking a QB this year.
except geno did not look bad down the stretch of 2013 and the team was 8-8 when everyone thought they would be horrible. revisionist history is all you are using.
The 2014 season was managed so incompetently, starting with a horrible draft evaluation process, that it's hard to see how things would have turned out any differently than they did. The Rex + Idzik pairing worked in 2013 but failed irrevocably in 2014 when the differences in the time scales involved became apparent. I think the incompetency in the talent evaluation process was enough to sink the pairing anyway but having them both on separate islands with no way to help each other out and still do their jobs was the straw the broke the camel's back.
i don't disagree, that whole thing was a mess. the only thing that would have saved them was geno and if he had that ability in him at that stage in his career he wouldn't have been a 2nd rd pick. but going into that draft i understood why they were staying out of the qb market. hindsight says they shouldn't have but we know how clear that vision is
