Yes, both styles have won championships, but if one has to go with one extreme or the other, I think the disciplinarian style is inherently better in today's NFL. Too many young players aren't disciplined. They don't have good fundamentals. Too many are just after the fame and money and don't love the game. Too many will take the easy way out. That said, I think it's better to be balanced. Being too far in one extreme or the other is not good. Have the HC set high standards and demand the players meet them. Hold players accountable for their actions on and off the field. Be tough, but fair, and know when to ease off and give the players a break. Mangini was too tough, too anal and lost the team. Rex and Bowles don't hold players accountable, and while the players may love them, they don't respect them and don't give their best.
I wouldn't waste money on what is sure to be a mediocre QB that also blocks the finding and developing of a TRUE FQB. Building a team that can win 9 or 10 games is almost never going to be good enough to get to a SB, and that's all that most Jets fans want after almost 50 years without and appearance. There's a saying that is apropos: "The good is the enemy of the best". The Jets have wasted too much time and money on simply trying to be "good", and sacrificing their chance at being great. I'm way down with that approach.
I disagree. I think that a good evaluator could've told you was who. But the Jets didn't - and so far as I see, still don't - have one of those. And yes, I can hear your next words: "So why the hell would we even think of drafting a QB this year?" Good point, but I would say, because even if they don't know how to evaluate QBs, they still need one, and further, the old saying "Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn once in a while" applies.
The bolded sentence may be true, but if you're correct about Mac and his scouts not having the ability to pick the right QB, then I don't want him wasting a pick on a QB. He does pretty well at other positions, and the Jets should be able to get pretty much a "can't miss" impact player at #6. If we missed out on that and then he swung and missed at a QB, it would doubly hurt this team. No thanks. I don't think he's even considering a QB in the 1st round. I have a hunch that he may take the Davis kid from Cal. They interviewed him at either the East-West Shrine Bowl Game or Sr. Bowl, I forget which. That in and of itself doesn't mean anything, but I think I may have seen a rumor that the Jets like him, or maybe it's just a gut hunch, but the chance to get a real impact player in the top 10 doesn't come along every day. I know that neither does getting a FQB, but I would be shocked beyond belief if Mac gives up on Hack this early, especially if the word is correct that Hack really progressed a lot this season, and taking a QB in the 1st round, much less the top 10 would mean that he has given up on Hack.
You're probably right about Macc not looking for a QB, but it gives me that same "I've seen this movie before" feeling, and I feel like shouting "LOOK OUT!!!!" at the screen. And for god's sake, if he takes the kid from Davis, and ignores the guy who chased him out of Texas, that will really drive me crazy. Finally (for now), if he really can't evaluate QBs, I don't want him as a GM.
If he can't evaluate QBs, then I don't want him for GM, either, but we don't know that yet. If Hack did show significant progress, Mac has to and will give Hack every opportunity to win the job. The only way he could give up on him after a year is if Hack showed absolutely nothing and looked in over his head. If that's the case, then he's not going to take another QB high, but might take another developmental QB in a middle or lower round. That why the Davis kid from Cal might make sense.
I'm not against drafting a QB this year. I'm against drafting a QB on the 6 this year. I'd be fine with a trade down or two and then taking whomever the evaluators (specifically Maccagnan) thought was best on the 16 or 26 or whatever. I'd be happier if they did this and then took a LT on that pick but a QB wouldn't be the worst idea in the world. I have no clue which of the 4 guys people are talking about as early picks are likely to make it as an NFL starting QB. Like in 2014 my approach would be to spend the least possible value and let other people do the choosing and be happy with any of them that I got as cheaply as I could. If we'd done this in 2014 we'd have wound up with Derek Carr instead of the 3 blowouts taken in front of him. Even if he'd been a blowout instead of Bridgewater or Manziel for instance we'd still have spent substantially less draft value to get blown out than we would have on the other guys who blew out. In the absence of a Peyton Manning, Andrew Luck type it's a total lottery and if you can't figure out who the best picks are reliably it's certainly better to spend less on them than you would if you claimed to be able to pick between them.
Vocabulary is not one of my strong skills, but doesn't trolling mean leaving an offensive remark or statement? I am discussing in a constructive manner how the Jets can improve, where is the trolling in that? If you feel my analysis is wrong, be my guest and let me have it. Otherwise to be hostile because I am a Patriots fan with an opinion, does seem to me to be a bit unfair. I know in your world a Patriots fan can not be a Jet fan, but I am sorry to inform you this is possible. I have not shown you or anyone any disrespect. So would it be too much to ask to expect the same for me?
Patriot, we go back a couple of seasons at least. You have shown plenty of disrespect in that time, but as I pointed out in a prior post. Your really a nice guy. It was just friendly advice , members here will quickly tire of your smug , condescending comments. Take it or leave it.
I do believe that he will take a QB later in the draft 2nd or 3rd round. I feel this does not show his number 2 pick to be a complete bust but really just competition in camp and to be able to sit and learn while petty and hack boom or bust. We then have a competent QB waiting in the wings. Mac seems to cover high football IQ guys which is not a bad thing and Nathan Peterman seems to me to be a hack kind of guy. Probably available in the 3rd and has upside.
So far he is 0-2 on QBs drafted, those are spots he could have taken BPA and had another player to take care of a position that needs to be addressed. In the meantime other teams take BPA behind Mac and build a good core foundation for their teams, while Mac strikes out with project QBS. JMO
Not saying that is what he should do just saying that I could see him doing that. Just imagine if our input actually meant something. You reading Mac? Hope so.
Sorry, I should have replied differently, I actually agree with you that he might do that again, my reply was showing the problem with always drafting a QB instead of BPA and how it hurts the team by not building a foundation with good players. QB position is a tough position to gamble on because of the negative return. Not only are you out a pick, but your out a player that could have helped the team in another area and still leaves holes to fill.
My sister in law did that while we were at the movies, scared me more than the movie did and everyone laughed instead of being scared. Sorry to derail thread, back on point. I will sour on Mac if he reaches for another QB.
The issue with taking a QB in the 2nd or 3rd is that you normally have a guy you're pretty sure will get on the field in those slots. That doesn't mean they make it there all the time, particularly with the Jets, but it's a high potential pick. With the Jets spending a 2nd on Hackenberg last year that's one high potential pick that will not be supporting whoever the eventual QB is unless it's Hackenberg. You spend another high potential pick on a QB this year and you'd better be right because if neither that guy nor Hack makes it to the field, well the guy that eventually does is getting no support at all from 2 2nd round picks in a row before him. I'd rather trade down in the 1st and add some value and then figure out if the Jets want a QB in the top 36 this year. I'd really rather they not get lost in no-mans land again (Kellen Clemens #49 in 2006, Geno Smith #39 in 2013, Christian Hackenberg #51 in 2016). Picks that high have the potential to be really good players, spending them on backup QB's is a losing strategy.
I agree if he can recoup a pick by trading down that would be ideal. A popular option would be to pick Patrick Mahomes and that could be possible in the second half of the 1st. Then we could fortify the oline in the second and grab a CB with the extra pick and move on with whatever in the 3rd. The ideal event would be to have Hackenberg turn a corner of course and show huge gains in his game. If that were the case trading down would still be ideal to address all the other holes we have. The biggest problem with drafting suspect qbs high is they are likely sitting for a year or 2 and that's not helping a rebuild. Impact, depth and core players are essential and it's hard to justify another guy that will not help the team in 17.
This is why, if you're going to take a QB, your odds are best taking one at 6. If you decide that there is no QB that's worthy of that high of a pick, then pass on QB completely and focus on building the other areas. If the Jets had a guy who was QB "guru" who could really evaluate QB talent - not just physical, but more importantly the intangibles then drafting a QB in a lower (4th or below) might be worth a shot, but they don't, and I agree with your analysis that using a 2nd Round pick on a 50-50 bet is foolish.
I think saying that he is 0-2 on QBs is premature and wrong. If anything, he gets an incomplete. I understand your point, and it is a valid one, but we all know that without a good QB, the team is going nowhere, and a big part (perhaps the biggest) of the GM's job is finding that QB. GMs don't keep their jobs for long when they fail to find a quality QB for their team, no matter how good their other picks are. This is the time to try to find that QB, while they are rebuilding the roster. Once the roster gets rebuilt, the team will be too good, and they won't be drafting anywhere near where they need to be in order to find that FQB unless they get extremely lucky and someone drops like Brady did and proves to be a revelation.
Your point is valid, just as I told Red Menace, but one of the GM's primary job responsibilities is finding a QB. When you're not picking in the top 5-10 of the draft, you have to roll the dice some to try to find a QB. He can't just sit there and not take any risks and not take any QBs. Normally one wouldn't take a project QB in the 2nd round, but Hack had too much going for him, and it would have been too risky to hope that he'd still be there in the 3rd or 4th rounds. I can totally understand why he took Hack where he did. I don't think Mac will take a QB high this year, because to do so would say that he has already give up on both Hack and Petty, and that would be foolish, not only because they haven't been here that long, but because the Jets have a defensive guy as HC and their previous OC and QB coach were not known for developing QBs. In addition, the very thing that was holding Hack back was his footwork, and they weren't even going to begin changing that until after the season was over. So giving up on him would be stupid, and would clearly signal that Mac was in over his head. I think he may take a QB, and if he does, it will be in the 4th round or lower, unless there's one there in the 3rd that he really likes. I don't think he will use even a 2nd round pick on a QB, because that too would signal a lack of confidence in himself or Hack. Mac didn't spend a 2nd round pick on a backup QB. It's disingenuous to say that he did.
