Well I have to say I'm intrigued. I am a firm believer in that there is no substitution for talent, and he certainly has that. And I also believe that "mechanics" are for those who don't possess that natural talent. How many greats in all sports had "terrible" mechanics, and yet went to their respective HOF? Frankly, if I had Mahomes, I'd be reluctant to "fix" him. I mean, if a guy can throw a ball 60 yards from his knees - meaning he's obviously NOT stepping into the throw - what exactly are you trying to improve? Sure, as the writer mentioned, you might be able to improve his consistency, but you might also screw him up - maybe this is what happened to Hackenberg? Gambler that I am, I would certainly think about taking him, but I don't know if I'd use my first pick on him. If I didn't take Watson, I might take Howard at #6, and if Mahomes is there with my 2nd, take him there, and if he's not, continue drafting for BPA with respects to highest need. Of course, if Macc took him I'd be surprised that he kept Hack. I think he would probably sign a vet, and go with Petty, the vet and Mahomes. But I sure like his potential, MUCH more than I do Hackenberg's.
I love Mahomes to, but I'm not nearly as optimistic as you. Lots of players look great in college getting by on natural ability, then get to the NFL and are exposed because of their lack of technique and mechanics. CBs are a lot better in the NFL, and the winds in the NE are pretty strong in Dec. and January. If he doesn't learn to step into his throws, even with his very strong arm, he could see a lot of passes sail on him and see his number of interceptions balloon. I also disagree with your assertion that "mechanics" are for those who don't possess natural talent. Mechanics are not an end in and of themselves. They are a means to an end. That means is greater accuracy, success and staying healthy. With his flawed mechanics, I think he's probably putting a lot of stress on his shoulder, knees, and maybe elbow. If he tears a rotator cuff or has to have Tommy John surgery within a few years of entering the NFL, he won't be nearly as good and will miss a year or so. Even if his physical health isn't at risk, almost certainly he will have more problems with accuracy and interception in the NFL if he doesn't fix his mechanics. Trying to improve his mechanics could cause him some confusion for a time, but shouldn't mess him up. I've seen a lot of comparison with Favre. Favre never learned to not take the unnecessary risks or fixed his mechanics, and that not only probably cost him a lot of unnecessary interceptions, but quite possibly made him a less effective player
Again, let me clarify. When I say "Mechanics are for those who don't possess natural talent", I'm responding to those who think that they can take a guy who doesn't have a strong arm (or whatever) and make up for it with the "right" mechanics. Yes, good mechanics can improve someone with natural talent, but I've also seen guys screwed up because someone thought they could make them better. Sometimes awkward and unorthodox just works. And if they blow out an arm or other body part because of poor mechanics that's the gamble you take to have them at their best for however long it lasts. I really do wonder if in trying to "fix" Hackenberg, they wound up screwing him up. As a coach myself I learned that there are certain "truths": You can't teach height You can't teach speed And I would add to this: You can't teach someone how to throw hard - they either can or they can't. So when you have a guy with a gun for an arm, that's a gift. Now if that's ALL he has, it doesn't mean he'll succeed. We've all seen numerous guys with guns who never made it. That's where the "intangibles" come in - when you can combine those two elements you're almost guaranteed success. Of course there's also raw intelligence and the ability to learn complex game plans, and so on, and so that can keep a guy with raw talent and the intangibles from succeeding, showing why its so rare to have someone with all three - in other words an "elite" QB. I don't know if Mahomes has all three, but that assessment I commented on seems to indicate that he does, and if so, he'd be worth a shot for the Jets.
NC is assume you would take Favre at 6, bad mechanics and all. Maybe even today at 47 years of age, lol. I would like to see the Jets move down a few spots and acquire another pick before selecting any QB, hopefully Mahomes. My bet is he improves his stock during combines and shoots up the draft list.
Well that's the risk. I think if the Jets think he - or Watson - have what it takes to be their FQB, they should take him with their 1st pick. To turn your question to NC slightly around: "How would you feel if the Jets could draft "Favre" at #6 and passed, hoping to get him in a later round?" Of course we don't know if Mahomes or Watson are going to be that good, but when you need a FQB and the possibility is there, you need to act on it. Ideally, while his draft stock rises, it doesn't rise too high, and the Jets can grab him with a 2nd or 3rd round pick, but I think he's going to go higher, especially with reports that the Steelers are looking for Big Ben's heir. Maybe if the Jets could swap their #6 pick to Cleveland for their #12 and #32 picks they could get Howard at 12 and Mahomes at 32, but that's a gamble.
Thanks for the clarification. I agree with this. It's too bad we took Hack last season. I'd have loved to see the Jets take Mahomes and see what he can do.
I don't remember what Favre looked like coming out of college, but I would have taken him, and would take Mahomes. He's too great a talent to not take a flyer on. The problem is that Mac did that last year with Hack, so we can't really afford to do that again. For his sake, I hope whoever gets him (unless it's the Pats, the Bills, or the Dolphins) can get his fundamentals/mechanics fixed. I think his talent is off the charts, and he could have an amazing career. I loved Favre when he was young, but pretty much despised him when he was older because he was still making stupid rookie mistakes in his last season. He was too stupid or lazy to try to change or improve.
I think he simply had the "curse" of the supremely gifted: They have so much success because of their physical prowess that when that begins to deteriorate, they can't adjust for it. This would be the danger with Mahomes, but of course that might come years down the road, after much success. As you know, I still think the Jets should take Watson or Mahomes regardless of Hack, but I admit I don't think Macc will take that approach, unfortunately.
Colorado I really like your Howard , Mahomes strategy.. I would love that move. I would also love them to begin the OL rebuild. Thanks also for clarifying my question/point about drafting Favre at 6. NC , a big difference between Hack and Mahomes is that Mahomes produced big numbers with a weaker surrounding cast. A lot of his bad mechanics were necessitated by a young and inexperienced OL. Hack never impressed me at PSU although he looks the part. I honestly don't see Mac and the Jets admitting a draft mistake (Hack) this soon. I would do it but my job isn't on the line.
Yes it is. Hack will be messing up our draft boards for the next few years until we cut him. Then he will be lumped in with the Nagles, Gholston, Hill arguments. You would think with how much these scouts poke, prod, analyze these guys that they would have nailed it down by now. But you can't measure a basket case they always sneak in under the radar.
Yeah I think Macc will be gun shy from here on out, no more risky picks. He had a little success with his first draft and tried to get too cute with the 2016 draft. We didn't need a tiny inside linebacker and QB that couldn't handle change. This upcoming draft will tell alot. Macc did great with the lower rounds and UDFA and we need that also.
I read this a lot. Can anyone provide an example of a QB with Mahomes' "arm talent" that failed o was "exposed" because of technique and mechanics? I can think of many strong armed guys that had pre-existing accuracy issues that followed them into the league but with this kind of natural arm talent failing because of mechanics. The closest I'd imagine is Jeff George and I guess Cutler whose issues are less about technique and mechanics and more about other things. That said; I wouldn't constitute either as busts. Both would be better than anything we've produced in the last decade.
I can see how scouts could fall in love with Hack. He's big, strong armed, smart, has pro-style offense experience...yadi yadi yada. Aside for his one flaw, he was "almost" the perfect QB prospect. Problem his one flaw is, in the words of our president, "HOOOGE". Poor accuracy stemming from bad mechanics rarely gets better in the pros. Macc took a big risk that can pay off even bigger if it works out. Even if it doesn't, he can still survive it as long as he doesn't allow it to shape our draft strategy going forward. At the end of the day, Hack was only a second round pick. He shouldn't prevent him front drafting another QB he feel can be a franchise caliber type.
Mahomes/Hackenberg is really giving me Favre/Nagle flashbacks. http://www.espn.com/blog/new-york/j...ects-on-jets-and-the-almost-brett-favre-trade
Man, that really hurts! SOOOO close to having a HOF QB and a great coach. In usual Jets' fashion, we got bubkis.
I think we need to clarify something about Mahomes mechanics. IMO he doesn't have "bad" mechanics; he just doesn't have consistent mechanics. It's not like he has some sort of weird ineffective never seen before footwork, arm motion and/or release. There are times where he does use proper mechanics and other times where he is making throws off-balanced, flat footed, back-footed, side armed, 3/4 armed...you name it. Regardless of how it's delivered more often than not the pass is accurate. I don't think getting him to be more consistent with his mechanics is a big deal especially when we see his accuracy does not suffer when he doesn't. With regards to Favre and interceptions I think a lot of those had more to do with his decision making than his mechanics. Most guys with that kind of arm talent tend to take unnecessary risks because of the confidence they have in their arms. Favre was the same x 10; he took it to another level.
I think Mahomes' footwork and mechanics are awful. Most of the time he's throwing with only his arm, no legs or hip action. I'm amazed at how accurate he is considering his mechanics. His health is my concern. With all the passes he'll have to throw in the NFL, I think that will lead to chronic shoulder and/or elbow issues. I also think he could wind up throwing a lot of interceptions in the NFL because the DBs are a lot better, a lot faster, coverages more deceptive, and then there's the NE winds. Don't get me wrong. I'd love it if the Jets could get him in the 2nd round and then just roll with the 3 youngsters at QB, but I don't see that happening.
The better comparison is a slightly more athletic Stafford and Favre type w/o the pro-style offense experience.
