If you had a choice

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by RochesterJet, Dec 12, 2016.

  1. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2016
    Messages:
    14,518
    Likes Received:
    21,736
    I agree, but I don't know if they had someone who they thought they could replace Revis with, but they definitely had somebody to replace Fitz with - Petty. And in addition to sending a message, he would've also been able to see what Petty could do a lot sooner than now. To me it was a golden opportunity for Bowles to make the changes that were inevitable, but he hung onto Fitz and the poor results. How can you say that a guy who threw six interceptions in one game "Gives us the best chance to win?" Whatever his REAL reason was for continuing to play him after all that, it was inexcusable IMO.
     
    NCJetsfan, kevda5n9ne and nicg4360 like this.
  2. Footballgod214

    Footballgod214 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2005
    Messages:
    15,242
    Likes Received:
    6,100
    Not sure what our DB roster looks like, but I think our newest DB (Burris ?) got his first start this last week. 6 weeks to late, and Revis still played the whole game so I'm not sure who Burris came in for. But Revis has been an embarrassment to the team and to himself. Revis should have been taken out behind the barn and shot months ago! Same with Fitz (your point).
     
    NCJetsfan and ColoradoContrails like this.
  3. James Hasty

    James Hasty Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2003
    Messages:
    15,980
    Likes Received:
    5,264
    Anyone that does not want an offensive minded head coach needs to answer the following question:

    Do you think it is a coincidence that our GMs selected only defensive players in the first round while Rex Ryan was head coach?

    The reality is that the head coach has a lot of say in our draft and free agency. The general manager does not simply disregard the input of the head coach and simply take the best available player every time.

    We need to draft offensive linemen including our future left tackle. Tight ends and running backs that scare opposing defenses would be needed to go deep into the playoffs. Even if Petty is the truth, who is going to give him the guidance to go from good to great?
     
    NCJetsfan likes this.
  4. Footballgod214

    Footballgod214 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2005
    Messages:
    15,242
    Likes Received:
    6,100
    I don't mind having a Defensive minded HC (and GM for that matter). It's 1000x harder to build a great defense than a great offense. A great offense needs one player, usually a Tom Brady. A great defense needs 11 great players plus 3-6 great subs. A defense must be better ANY WHERE on the field than the offense is at the point of attack.

    NE has the best situation....Tom Brady running the O, and Belicheck running the D and buying the groceries.
     
  5. grkmanga31

    grkmanga31 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2009
    Messages:
    3,738
    Likes Received:
    2,462
    IMO, Jeff Fisher, John Gruden, and Mike Westhoff are all either not qualified, or unrealistic. So far for 2 years we have not seen Bowles progress as an HC, and some can make a legitimate argument that he has even gotten worse. Winning masks a lot and the flaws that Bowles has was masked by having literally almost everything go right last season. This season, everything has gone wrong and Bowles looks like a jack ass and rightfully so. I wanted to see a HC who was better at in game adjustments, game and situational awareness, time out usage, challenge usage. He has not improved.

    This year his blind loyalty to veterans has not only embarrassed this franchise, but he has wasted meaningful practice and in game reps on people who won't even be on this team next year. Why did we have to wait till week 14 to see Bilal Powell, Petty, Burris, etc. to play meaningful ball? What's funny is Bowles' hand was forced by injury. We killed Rex for everything I just mentioned and yet Bowles is literally a quieter version of Rex. I am personally not sold on his growth as a head coach, and I don't necessarily think that all former coordinators can become good head coaches at their first stop. Sometimes it takes 2 head coaching jobs to reflect and make yourself better.
     
  6. RochesterJet

    RochesterJet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2006
    Messages:
    2,943
    Likes Received:
    977
    Jeff Fisher!!!!!
     
  7. nicg4360

    nicg4360 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2016
    Messages:
    679
    Likes Received:
    507
    I think there is some truth that there does need to be some continuity with coaches and a team. With that said Bowles has had a rough year with keeping this team on track. He needs a good supporting cast. Our OC has had to work through a lot of rookies and injuries on the offensive side. I think we need to look at what let us down which was supposed to be our strength. Kacy Rodgers really had an all star front 7 and completely let the defensive backs look like idiots at times. I would love to see a verbal DC much like Ryan to take that responsibility off Todd somewhat.
     
  8. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2016
    Messages:
    14,518
    Likes Received:
    21,736
    I don't know, maybe you're right, but in my experience it's harder to create than to destroy. Sure, having a guy like Brady makes it look easy, and he certainly makes up for a lot of shortcomings with his HOF talent, but look how hard it is to build a good OL, and to find receivers who can hold onto the ball. A DB just has to get his fingers on it to break up a play; a DL just has to put pressure on the QB to disrupt things. Meanwhile, the guys on offense have to finish plays to be successful. For the most part, you can plug a talented rookie into a defense and they'll make an impact, but most rookies can't just step into an offense and do the same.

    As for coaching, I think there's a fundamental philosophical difference between a defensive-minded coach and an offensive-minded one, and "never the twain shall meet" as a rule. There are exceptions, and those guys are usually the ones who win SBs. I don't see Bowles being able to change his philosophy, so unless he gets a really strong OC who he can depend on, I don't think he's going to succeed.
     
  9. JCLA

    JCLA Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2013
    Messages:
    129
    Likes Received:
    87
    Started in the nickel.
     
  10. nicg4360

    nicg4360 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2016
    Messages:
    679
    Likes Received:
    507
    The blind loyalty to vets is a big problem. When something is not working no matter what you need to try other options. Bowles said he may lose the team if he starts Petty. From what I could see the team was on life support when Fitz played and actually rallied around Petty.
     
    grkmanga31 and ColoradoContrails like this.
  11. JCLA

    JCLA Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2013
    Messages:
    129
    Likes Received:
    87
    Well, I don't necessarily know if it's blind loyalty. If he truly didn't know whether or not winning/losing this season would dictate his future I can see why he kept playing the older guys. It doesn't make it the right/logical decision but those go out the window when something of yours is threatened. If you are going to try and win games to save your job, you are going to play what you know you have versus things you have uncertainty about.

    I think what we are seeing now is that barring the team looking uninterested in playing football the rest of the season, Woody has at least guaranteed Bowles the start of next year and maybe most of next year to prove he is capable to keep his job, which is potentially why we are now seeing the younger players.

    This could also just be me trying to justify how anybody in their right mind sticks to Fitz that long. Only reasonable explanation I can think of is that if I need to win to save my Job; I'd probably stick with Fitz as well after last season.
     
  12. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2016
    Messages:
    14,518
    Likes Received:
    21,736
    In my experience, guys who "play it safe" don't win championships. "Faint heart ne'er won fair lady" as the Bard said.
     
  13. JCLA

    JCLA Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2013
    Messages:
    129
    Likes Received:
    87
    Hard to do when your job is on the line.
     
  14. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2016
    Messages:
    14,518
    Likes Received:
    21,736
    Guys who put their job ahead of the organization usually wind up losing it anyway. I want a coach with the courage of his convictions. At least then we know we're getting his best effort. That alone isn't enough, but it's the foundation of great leaders.
     
  15. JCLA

    JCLA Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2013
    Messages:
    129
    Likes Received:
    87
    I agree with you I just think that's so much easier said than done.

    I don't think Bowles isn't giving his best effort. I just think he stuck to what he was comfortable with to try and preserve his job.

    That's why I don't agree with firing somebody every two years. It doesn't give somebody the ability to make daring decisions.
     
  16. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2016
    Messages:
    14,518
    Likes Received:
    21,736
    I understand your point, but I would counter by saying that great leaders make daring decisions when they're faced with them. They don't need - or even want - a "cushion". Bowles has shown me enough to say that he isn't a SB-caliber coach. Could he be a "stepping stone" in that direction? Maybe, but if a better option comes up, I wouldn't hesitate to fire him.

    What if Bill O'Brien is available? I'm not saying that's he's necessarily a SB-caliber coach either, but he HAS been successful as a HC, not just in the NFL but in college, AND he had great success molding Hackenburg. Don't you think Macc would love to have him to tutor his "project" and to justify him taking Hack in the 2nd Round?

    And there are some other much better candidates out there who might be available, so I think Bowles isn't long for the Jets.
     
    NCJetsfan likes this.
  17. grkmanga31

    grkmanga31 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2009
    Messages:
    3,738
    Likes Received:
    2,462
    I'm not sure if that report was accurate, but judging by the personnel decisions he's made, I wouldn't be surprised if it's true. Bowles hitched his wagons to the older guys and got buried for it. We could have had a few more wins had he been more proactive in putting younger, hungrier players in.

    Also, if he was truly concerned about losing the locker room, then it means he already lost it.
     
    ColoradoContrails likes this.
  18. vokab206

    vokab206 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2015
    Messages:
    870
    Likes Received:
    732
    None of these guys strike me as an improvement over Bowles. Would rather go all in with someone else. Westhoff as Special Teams coach again...sign me up.
     
  19. WarriorRB28

    WarriorRB28 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2003
    Messages:
    10,422
    Likes Received:
    2,525
    The team was coming off a 4-12 disaster in 2015. What the hell is a "easy" schedule for a team coming off that type of season with a rookie head coach and a 'journeyman' starting QB?

    Teams coming off 4-12 seasons look at the schedule and say this is a easy win, that one too and that one? LOL

    Todd Bowles saved his job last week. I think they'll win tonight and beat Buffalo too that's a 3-1 finish. He's not going anywhere.

    I'd only make the change if I could get a KNOWN upgrade like a Tom Coughlin. Bowles will get a shot to right the ship we'll see how it goes.

    As for Jeff Fisher I still remember how people though of him when Tennessee went to the Super Bowl and the Titans had those strong teams in the early 2000s. To see how it ended for him is shocking to me.

    Isn't he one of the one of the biggest loser HC in NFL history? Did he set the record before he was fired? Why would the Jets want to be associated with a coach with type of stigma? Biggest loser HC in NFL history? WHY WHY WHY? STAY AWAY FROM HIM!
     
  20. Section 336

    Section 336 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2006
    Messages:
    7,052
    Likes Received:
    5,492
    Personally
    I would like to see the Jets hire Todd Haley as HC.

    He began his coaching career here, has NFL Head coaching experience, and is a good offensive mind in the game .
    I think that he has had some time to reflect from his KC experience and will be a good HC in his second go round like many others.
     

Share This Page