That's fair. But with all due respect, I'm not about to read 237 pages. I more wanted to start up an intelligent discussion regarding it. I imagine there is a load of sewage throughout the last 237 pages lol. Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
How about Geno's last 4 starts in the NFL? 18 for 29 62% Completion 87.4 rating 1 td 1 int 16 for 28 57% Completion 88.2 rating 1 td 0 int 17 for 27 63% Completion 83.9 rating 1 td 1 int 20 for 25 80% Completion 158.3 rating 3 td 0 int Considering it was for a dead team with a lame duck coach and shitty receivers, that is enough for me to want to see a little more.
Not to mention, he throws a much better ball than Fitz. He is more accurate and looks so much better delivering the ball when he gets time and steps up in the pocket His deep ball is actually pretty good and he has a nice arm which would add a completely new dimension compared to last year's offense. He should be a very good fit in Gailey's spread offense Fitz is pretty good at evading rushers and running but Geno is even better at this and a legit athlete running with the ball. Fitz is better at making the decision to run but that can come with time for Geno My whole thing is that Geno has all the physical tools but never had even decent coaching or a decent team around him as he was thrown right into the fire. He actually had a terrible coaching staff for developing a young QB and one of, if not the worst, supporting casts. This is all during a time where someone like Geno should have been on the bench and learning but he was thrown right into the fire because of Dummy Rex Before we throw in the towel on a high 2nd round pick, I just think it's worth it to see how he looks with everything he needs to be successful. He will have no excuses, he should be much more mature both on and off the field and he's got the right coaches and players around him A JAG like Fitz should not get in the way of your long term success as a franchise....Having a veteran like Fitz as a backup/mentor is perfectly fine but this should be Geno's team if he shows he deserves it in training camp and pre-season
Some would argue with no pressure it could be easier. If I recall we were out of the playoff race for those games. But either way, that was a nice stretch. Having said that, five of Fitzpatrick's final six games he had a QB rating higher than 88. He had that unacceptable stinker against Buffalo. I don't know if four decent games are enough to sway me that Geno is marked for serious improvement. I still remember some bone head plays in the Oakland game last year, despite playing pretty well. Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
I posted this about a month ago, it sums up a good share of the arguments out there "I don't think Geno vs. Fitz greatly impacts the amount of games this team will win. Entering the 2015 season, Geno's career winning percentage (.379) was actually higher than Fitz's (.375) despite all the losses he racked up in 2014. And Fitz sustained that percentage over a much bigger sample size, which is awful. Despite that, a great defense and 2 good receivers allowed the team to go 10-6. Why can't it help Geno in the same way? Geno completed a higher percentage of his passes (59.7%) in 2014 throwing to an injured Decker, Kerley and David Nelson than Fitz did in 2015 (59.6%) throwing to one of the league's best supporting casts. Their yards per attempt (6.9) were the same. The single greatest thing that caused the Jets to lose games in 2014 was red zone inefficiency (this is the case most years; the majority of NFL games are close, so the difference between TD's and FG's wins and loses games). That year, 7 of Geno's 10 losses were by 1 score or less. That doesn't happen if they aren't the worst red zone team in the NFL (36.17% touchdowns). Marty's red zone offense revolved around slow developing plays targeted to guys like Jeremy Kerley. What changed this year that allowed the Jets to convert the 3rd highest percentage of red zone trips into touchdowns? The red zone offense shifted from being scheme-oriented to being player-oriented. Instead of the OC trying to get cute and get players open by design, Chan just had Fitz chuck it up to Marshall or Decker and have them win the ball. Granted, this is much easier when you have those 2 to work with, but do you really think Geno can't throw the same lobs that Fitz did? Ryan Fitzpatrick is probably the better quarterback for this team for 2016 (despite the fact that his arm strength mitigates an entire component of the offense). But is he worth 12 times the price of Geno? I'm completely neutral to the situation at this point, I'm prepared and content for either guy to start. I'm just confused at the notion that the team is screwed if it's Geno." Other good arguments can be made regarding Geno now playing in a simpler spread system as opposed to the horrible West Coast fit he played in with no NFL experience, how he performed down the stretch of his second season, the splits in his performance with/without certain players, the fact that Fitz was often bailed out by his supporting cast last year and Geno having another year of experience under his belt. Obviously it's been talked about ad nausem how he'd open up the deep part of the field that wasn't a part of our offense last year, which would theoretically make Marshall and Decker even more dangerous. IMO the best argument is the winning percentage one. Everyone talks about this being a "win now" team that needs a veteran game manager at QB, but Fitz's career winning percentage is awful. The obvious retort to that is "yea, but he's always played on bad teams. He won 10 games with a good roster last year." And now you've fed right into the pro-Geno argument. In my eyes, everything broke right for us last year. Last place schedule that was the lowest SOS in the league, no major injuries, caught a lot of teams at the right time, unexpected production from older players, and we still didn't make the playoffs. Fitz would have to significantly improve to even replicate last year's win total.
Going over the pros & cons of Fitz vs. GeNo is pointless. We've seen what each brings to the table. If Fitz don't sign and GeNo sucks and Petty and Hack ain't ready... Wildcat here we come!
TLDR: great coaching and a good roster were enough to bring Fitz from a .375 career winning percentage to 10 wins. Why can't it do the same for Geno, who theoretically hasn't reached his prime in the sample size we've seen and is 1/12 the price?
Pretty much sums it up I think Geno had a few "so bad" moments that some people can't get over it...They were awful but you gotta look at the whole picture
He forgot that he folds and fumbles under pressure, doesn't step into throws if he's going to get hit, gets happy feet after being sacked once, often retreats for huge sack yards lost, and has no clue how to read a defense, not to mention he's a pick 6 machine because of it. Don't forget he didn't throw more touchdowns that interceptions in his first two years starting while compiling massive turnover statistics. Fitzpatrick threw 15 touchdowns & 3 picks in his last 6 games last year by the way. Since we're gonna play the cherry pick stats that fit our agenda game.
Dude - nobody is cherry picking stats, people are responding to legitimate question by a poster on why some believe Geno could be marked for improvement. We all know and acknowledge his shortcomings under the QB killing coaching staff. Nobody is trying to prove that Geno is better than Fitz or any other agenda. Some us realize that Fitz is a dead end, some of us do not. That being so, some of us believe that jury is not completely out on Geno.
They lost some key defensive pieces, but Sanchez can definitely keep them in the hunt to repeat. If he can limit mistakes, they really could win and I would not be shocked. However, I also would not be shocked if it went the other way, and he is benched early on in the season. Time will tell.
You're proving your agenda in the way you word things. Some "realize" Fitz is a dead end while they "believe" the jury is not out on Geno. Regardless, you're entitled to that opinion. I'm arguing that Fitzpatrick > Geno for the foreseeable future and four good game by Geno does not constitute him putting the franchise on his back after watching him jerk off in the backfield for two straight seasons. A lot of quarterbacks come into the NFL with crappy receivers. If they are good enough they make lemonade out of their sour lemons. If they're not, they lull fans like you to sleep with 4/16 good games a year and continue to get chances. Luckily I have faith the coaching staff is not run by this board and they'll make the correct choice at quarterback.
1) Nobody is saying "put the franchise on his back", we already have 2 young draft pick qb's learning in the wings 2) Explain why Fitz isn't a dead end. Where does Fitz as QB of the Jets lead to? Not the playoffs in my book 3) The 4 game stretch was used as an example of why some believe he may be able to improve, it is after all his most recent body of work as a starter. 4) I am not gay so maybe I never noticed Geno jerking off in the backfield. 5) Most higher drafted QB's who come in with shitty talent are given an opportunity to show what they can do when the talent increases especially, if they show improvement from year 1 to year 2, they usually will get a look in year 3. Take a look at your golden boy Fitz, he threw 21 TDs to 27 Ints with 8 fumbles lost (1 more than Geno in less games) his first 3 years as a starter.
Everyone has an agenda, that isnt news to anyone. I doubt there is anyone that is completely impartial to the QB situation. Obviously everyone cherry picks stats. It really comes down to two camps IMO. People who think we need to kick the tires and see what we have in Geno, or people who think Geno is mostly a finished product. I dont think anyone can argue, that in a vacuum, Geno is a better option than Fitzpatrick for the 2016 season. I see the final four games of 2014 argument a lot, and I dont really get it, or at the very least, I dont understand it when comparing to Fitz. Like all the arguments contradict each other. Geno had a decent statistical final four games 2014. The Jets went 2-2 in that stretch, Geno didnt win games, he went 500. And statistically, he didnt even play better than Fitzpatricks end of the season. Besides one horrible game against Buffalo, Fitzpatrick finished damn strong. But Fitz lost that game, so he cant win big games. Despite having a better stretch than Geno ever has. I mean if we are going to use that example, cant we just as easily Fitz could improve? Its not like his game is predicated on athleticism, although his is a nice bonus. I would also like to know why people think Geno is more accurate. He has a stronger arm, I think that is where his throwing advantages begin and end. When it comes to TD%/INT%/Completion% /Yards per attempt/yards per game Geno has been equal to or worse than any Fitzpatrick year since 2011 (worse in everything except for completion percentage one year)
I don't mind if the Jets wait until after the first preseason game to see what Geno does before signing Fitzpatrick. Only reason to have Fitz there is for knowledge and maybe him developing chemistry with Forte.
Another big argument against Geno is regarding the way he takes sacks. In 2 years (plus Oakland) as a starter Geno, 31 games in total. Geno has been sacked 74 times for 509 yards lost. In Fitz first 3 years as a starter, 27 games in total, he was sacked 68 times for 370 yards lost. Geno is a little over 1 yard more per sack to start their careers, but Fitz did improve (but Geno cannot right). However Fitz average is over 2 1/2 sacks per game and Geno's is under 2 1/2 sacks per game.
OK. I'm not a Geno fan, but I'll take the bait. In my view Fitz was made by having a really good OC and Marshall. If you look at Marshall's history you'll see that he made a lot of really crappy QBs look like all-pros (as did the Jet's OC). I think Fitz falls squarely into that category. I watched every game last year and, in my view, Fitz was incredibly lucky, he threw a lot of passes that should have been intercepted, but were dropped. He consistently and repeatedly throws into double and triple coverage. He got lucky, had a good OC creating solid game plans and, finally, he had a very good receiving corps. When he played good defenses he got destroyed and when he had to win to get to the playoffs he shit the bed. Fitz's inability to hit the deep pass limits his ability to stretch defenses and allows defenses to clog the shorter passing lanes. There's a reason why Fitz has never taken a team to the playoffs and he will never be more than he already is. With the good defenses the Jets are playing next year, Fitz will not be successful next year and, in my view, with Fitz there's pretty much no chance the Jets make the playoffs. If that's true, then why pay him $12 million or even keep him? Moving on to Geno. Geno has played some bad football in his first two years in the league, but so has pretty much every young QB coming into the league. In his case, he also had a receiving corps that was the very worst in the NFL and truly incompetent OC's who had no idea how to bring along a young QB. Given that Fitz will not give us anything next year, why not roll the dice with Geno? Maybe with a good OC and a solid receiving corps he'll be successful. He won't be the first QB that Marshall has made successful. I also freely admit that he may be terrible. If he's terrible, so what? Fitz isn't getting us to the playoffs and he's certainly not taking us to the Super Bowl, so what difference does it make? What difference does it make if we go 6 and 10 instead of 8 and 8? I don't think Fitz is notably better than any other journeyman QB and a journeyman QB who could hit the deep pass would be a better fit for this offense than Fitz (although he might have to learn the system). On the other hand, if Geno is successful, the Jets might make the playoffs and be a good team. They could also build something. Summing everything up for you - Fitz is a known and limited player. Geno's an unknown in this system and with this personnel. If your known option isn't good enough, then you might as well go for the unknown and hope for the best.
