I am a mostly casual NBA fan but I can tell you the entire starting lineup for the 1995-1996 Chicago Bulls. Jordan and Pippen are Gods today. Reggie Miller's Indiana teams were nice teams that no one cares about today outside of Indianapolis. Reggie Miller doesn't have a better legacy today because he stuck with Indiana. Kevin Durant is Reggie Miller joining that Bulls team.
You don't think players like Kobe, Lebron don't thrive playing in the Garden? Players love to play there. I agree, it's been a while since the Garden has had its allure, but if the Knicks are decent and could stay healthy, the Garden will have some sort of Home Court Advantage. Westbrook is the perfect fit for NY and vice versa. Marketing, his rather interesting fashion sense, Westbrook would have the MSG each and every game. I am not a Knick Fan, but I've been to plenty of MSG games as well, and when they were good, you felt it in the crowd.
I think those that aren't understanding my point assume that Dan Marino and Kevin Durant would simply be role players or back-ups or washed up stars of yesteryear picking up rings like a Bill Wennington. My POINT was that Dan Marino and Kevin Durant would be Dan Marino and Kevin Durant--superstars--fully earning of those rings. It was a magical transposition in Marino's case--if he could have gone back in the middle of his career--nothing changed OTHER than him playing for a team with a running game and maybe a little defense--he would have taken that in a NANOSECOND. Not that he tagged along at the tail end of his career to get a ring. NOT my magical scenario. KD is going to try to win a championship in the PRIME of his career and be one of the superstars winning it. Good for him. But he's NOT going to be a role player doing it--he's going to be a main cog. Maybe a Finals MVP. I guess if you want to speculate that KD will be just a role player or an afterthought on a GS Championship team and therefore it has little meaning, that's a perfectly logical argument but not very likely. _
I really don't. I think fans vastly overrate the mystique to the players of the Garden. Don't get me wrong, I think they love playing here--but I also think they love playing here, banging some 10s and getting the hell out. And they haven't been good since before OJ was a murderer. _
people said the same thing about Lebron when he left for Miami. That he was going to "Wade's team." seems silly today. Ultimately Durant's play on the court will tell the story. If he's averaging 25 ppg and pulls in an MVP or something, which is certainly possible because he's Kevin F'ing Durant, then that argument that he's a role player on the team will seem silly too. If its a failure? he has an out clause and he's looking for a new team anyway next summer. People react too much in the moment.
I do think the Knicks need to stop thinking because they are the NY Knicks that players will want to play there and it will take care of itself. Fortunately I think they are passed that and are moving on to recognizing they need to build a good organization. I emphasize think because sometimes they appear to have a plan and other times they revert back to those same failings. So I am not sure. for what its worth the Lakers appear have the same problem.... thinking because they are "the LA Lakers" that folks will climb over walls to play there. They are finding out the hard way that that thinking is outdated.
You gotta remember that 1999 post-season. The Larry Johnson 3? The Garden went INSANE. First 8 seed to get to the finals? Easily one of the greatest moments in MSG History. I agree, at its highest point was the Willis Reed days and the Pat Riley era, but MSG and the Knicks had some good moments along the way. Nothing since 99 though.
It was after OJ though ... not disagreeing with you, but there were some great times in MSG, just hasn't been any since 99.
And Kevin Love was considered one of the best players in the NBA but on Cleveland he is a role player. How good he is is irrelevant if he simply has a different role on the Warriors. Obviously you don't follow what I'm saying because your post both supports exactly what I'm saying while also trying to dispute it. The Warriors were the favorites to win the title before signing Durant, so nobody believes they need Durant to win. That's exactly why you didn't simply state if they win a title it will reflect on his legacy -- you purposely qualify it by dictating that he has to break the all time win record for people to be talking about it 20 years from now. Yes, if the Warriors do something never done in NBA history with Durant that they weren't expected to accomplish without him -- win 74 or 75 games, that can certainly be attributed to him because nobody believes they would do so without him. My position certainly didn't negate that possibility. But that's what's known as an argument to the extreme and I try to avoid such logical fallacies. Is it possible they win 74 or more games? Sure it is, but I'm not basing my argument on such an extreme scenario. And it's the only scenario that reflects he has made a difference to the Warriors. As I mentioned, if they were already favored to win it all and simply win 62 games and win the title, that is what was expected of them without Durant so all he did is participate in the status quo. For him to be meaningful he has to make them better. That means winning more games than last year, which is unlikely. But even you are admitting that is the scenario required to dispute my position, as if it's a reasonable dispute. No, it's a logical fallacy.
I went to the Big East Tournament every year for about 15 years. Was great. That doesn't exist anymore. And the building without a great team is just a building. They haven't been good in forever. Nobody gives a crap about the Knicks other than Knick fans. I've always heard "if LeBron came to NY and won a championship he'd be a God". He is already a God and doesn't need the Knicks to make him that and he's NOT a Knick fan so he doesn't give a crap about making them a winner. Just Knick fans think like that. _
I got your point but the NFL and NBA don't translate directly. Of course Marino would have loved better offensive weapons to make the offense better, but in football you can have those without reducing a QB's role. In the NBA you can't. If you add better players who also want to shoot it takes shots away from everyone. Durant can't go to the Warriors and take as many shots without those shots coming from someone else. He is either going to take shots away from other players or he will have to give up his shots -- which means reduce his role from what it had been with the Thunder. Therefore to make the comparison to Marino it must be a scenario where Marino reduces his role as well not simply has better RB's and WR's or defense.
Knicks are ALWAYS talked about. Bad or good light, people want to see the Knicks be good. It's like the Lakers, Celtics, 76ers. NBA is always more popular when the original teams are doing good. Knick fans thought of Lebron has the savior, but winning a chip in CLE is 10x more of an accomplishment in comparison to NY. CLE hasn't won anything in 50+ yrs in any sport. That's why Lebron is now a God. He sure as well wasn't a God before this finals. He was a guy that came short 5 out of 7 times. In terms of MSG, Big East Tournament hasn't been good? Didn't you see Kemba Walker make MSG go completely crazy during that tourney? That was 2011. I was at the game where he hit that step-back shot against Pitt.
Durant can take as many shot as he wants and if he helps produce a winner--as a main cog--he'll get the accolades. If you assume he's going to be a role player or an after-thought--or a Kevin Love type--I think we are talking about two different players. It's not about making them a better regular season team than last year--that's irrelevant. No one is going to care if they win 68 games but he is a main force in winning a championship. He will have earned an NBA Championship and that's really all that matters. _
Knick fans want the Knicks to be good. The NBA wants them to be good. Nobody in the rest of the country gives a crap about the Knicks. The Big East is a shell of it's former self as is the tournament. Not saying there aren't great moments but nobody really cares about that tournament anymore. It kills me being a Syracuse alum. _
The Garden alone can't get any elite talent here. The top guys are underpaid so the only thing they can shop for is a winning team. Nobody good wants to play for the Knicks unless they're going to be winning. Same thing for the city of LA. But I think all things being equal, the garden would win over a player who's trying to decide between the bucks and the knicks or the hornets and the knicks. The main problem is the losing culture and Dolan (remember Isiah Thomas) who poisoned the well for many years now. Things seem to be changing back to desirability, hopefully the trend continues and Dolan never meddles again
It's not just Melo. The team has been god awful, management has been awful, the media is extra annoying, fans can be harsh, and they haven't had a good PG in decades. I agree with the folks who said that there isn't any real allure to the garden anymore. Sure, it's got history, but to attract good players, you need a decent team to begin with. In 2010 they had nobody, yet deluded themselves into thinking Lebron would come to NY and got stuck overpaying Amar'e in a desperation effort to salvage the ship. It's like that for every franchise in the league. Does anybody honestly believe Lebron would have gone to Cleveland if they didn't already have Kyrie and promise him to bring in another big star? The Knicks will have money again next year to improve upon whatever goes down this year. It's about one thing. Wins. That's why everybody's top FA destinations are the Warriors and Spurs. I think Rose being added to the stable of Melo & KP is a big part of helping attract players. Courtney Lee could have gotten more money with another team but chose the Knicks, same with Noah. With the other deals team have been making, the Noah deal is pretty good, very little guarantees in the 4th year and it's a definite upgrade from Lopez.
