Watched quite a bit of Browns football last year and McCown actually impressed me quite a bit considering the trash he had to work with. I'd say his weapons last year were worse then Geno had his first 2 years and apparently Geno would be awesome with Brandon, Deck, Powell, etc.. so therefore McCown would obviosuly win us a SB! Aside from some dream scenario where we trade Wilk for Rivers or somesuch then I'd be happy with McCown on the roster. If he costs the same as Fitz, I'd go for Fitz purely for system familiarity even tho' I think he's the lesser QB.
I'm starting to think people's definition of a "win now" team is that team has to be projected to "win now" literally. You can actually have a "win now" team that projects as a 500 or below team based on a myriad of factors (i.e., QB, division, schedule…etc.).
Thanks for the response and the well thought out reply. All good here. My opinion... I think the Jets as composed today and including Fitz are only missing a few pieces to be in the mix for the playoffs and a potential run. My reasoning: Last year, after installing a new coaching staff and adding a bunch of players they created a top 5 defense and an offense that showed they could put points on the board. In my mind if you have that you damn well better be in "win now" mode, because if you make it to the playoffs anything can happen. Year 2 of Bowles & Co., the players will have a better comfort level for the coaching schemes. The addition of Forte will be a big factor in improving the offense. It stalled last year when Powell was injured and Ivory was worn out. Agreed Forte is a better fit for Chan's system. Amaro should be back and I have high hopes for him to rebound and catch some balls. On defense Mauldin looked promising as an edge rusher and maybe he will make the leap like Pryor has. If they get another edge rusher out of the draft all the better. I think Mac is doing the right thing not chasing after guys and setting his value and sticking to it. He may be playing with fire a bit with Fitz, but so far he has read the market well. I hope it works out with Fitz but I have confidence that Chan can make Petty or even Geno (gasp) servicable if need be.
Picking BPA is not exclusive to rebuilding teams; "win now" teams can do that too. The good ones do this more often than not. Remember when Green Bay drafted Aaron Rodgers when they had a first ballot HOFer at the helm? Were these "win now" rules authored by Tannenbaum as they seem to have been pulled straight out of his playbook? Greenbay drafts a late round QB to develop almost every year; does this mean they are perpetually rebuilding? These examples you are providing seem logical to you because of your opinions on these players. Mac could have a completely different view of our oline depth for example. Maybe he knew he would probably not resign Mo long term so drafting his replacement was more of a priority or maybe Big CAT in his opinion was too good to pass up. Using this logic, does this mean the Super Bowl champions are not a "win now" team since their current QB situation is just as unstable as ours? If win now is only applicable when you have QB, then we've been rebuilding for a long time. "legitimate contenders" <> "win now" What exactly is Mac suppose to be rebuilding from anyway? Idzik, in the one thing he did right, had already demo'd the roster down to the studs to continue the analogy. Mac elected to build from there rather than blow it up further. Once you spend all that money on old veterans, it ceases to be a rebuild. Why is when Tanny did the same thing in 2008, it was considered "win now" but now when the honeymoon GM does the same thing it has this new nuanced label? You can't claim that a win now team would have attempted to fill a need in the first round rather than pick BPA, then in the same post use need as the excuse for signing old veterans to big contracts. Also "contend for the Lombardi Trophy" <> "win now". You act as though a GM can't field a competitive team w/o using up all the cap space; good GMs do that all the time. You also act as though there were not less expensive options to fill our needs. None of those positions are true. Mac chose to field one of the best secondaries in football, at least on paper, and he paid a hefty premium for it. That's was not an obligatory decision. With regards to your timeframe, no GM, especially one in NY, has the luxury of planning for 3-4 or 5-7 drafts; you've eluded to that yourself. What's funny is that the points you find irrelevant about the debate at hand (e.g., age of the roster, player salaries, cap flexibility…etc.) are the items most pertinent. Conversely, you keep citing your own personal views on specific players as why it's so obvious we are not win now.
McCown looked pretty hurt towards the end of last year and he's pretty old. That's my biggest concern with that route. He didn't do bad with what he had to work with though.
Yeah that guy argues against his own points a lot and then gets mad when you call him out on it. It he hadn't referenced an old tv show once before I would've assumed he was a preteen.
Bingo. Win now doesn't mean you are literally going to win this year. It basically means that you have an older team. You don't trade for Marshall or Fitz if you are a rebuilding team. That's not to say Mac doesn't value the future. He didn't mortgage the future to aquire these players, but he is looking to win now. When the average age of your starting offense is like 30, you are looking to win now. Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
Weird... I always though that when your team is over 30 and most of the older players suck, you look to replace them, not win SB with them. Maybe "win now" means " older AND still good"?
I believe that is what the Jets are doing, or at least trying to do. But it isn't exactly easy to replace a ton of older starters. That's why I commended Mac for not mortgaging the future for older players, but making low risk deals for them. Make no mistake, the Jets are trying to win now, and I consider that win now mode. Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
Meh, that statement could be made about any team that has ever entertained the idea of a QB competition. Seattle had no QB before Russell Wilson won their competition. We had no QB last year before Geno Smith got himself knocked out (pun intended) of our competition. etc. etc. I'm not saying that we have anyone on the roster who will turn out to be anything remotely close to Russell Wilson, but the point is to get the right guy on the roster and not worry about silly axioms that make people feel smart.
You're welcome. Thank you for your response as well. I'm not of the opinion that if one can make the playoffs anything can happen. IMO that's grasping at straws or desperately hoping against hope, and not really reality. Can it happen? On very rare occasions, yes it can happen, but it isn't the norm, and I'll believe it can happen to the Jets when it does. Sorry, but after 50 years of being a Jets fan, and even though I truly believe in both Mac and Bowles, I'm more cautiously optimistic about the team than you and others. Besides, I don't think a team that gets lucky and manages to go a long way is anything to be proud of. When the Jets are true competitors for the Lombardi Trophy, I want them to be legit contenders. I don't want their being asterisks, claims they got lucky or hot at the right time and won. I want them to be a legit contender perennially, and it to be no surprise when they win. Even though it's been a long time, I'm not so desperate for them to win a SB that I want them to win with a Fitz, Geno or some other mediocre vet QB. I realize that I'm most assuredly in the minority there, and perhaps the only Jets fan that thinks that way. Yes, in year 2 the players will have a better comfort level and more of the offense and defense should be able to be installed, but at the same time, there's not only going to be a very big turnover in the roster that's going to mitigate against that, the older players whose play is in decline are another year older, and their play is likely to be even worse that last season. In addition, teams will have played or seen film on the Jets' offense and defense, and they won't be taking anyone by surprise. I hope that Forte will be a big addition to the offense, but his number of touches will likely and should be limited to keep him fresh. Hopefully, Powell will make an even bigger contribution and Robinson will make an excellent contribution as well. I'm hoping that Amaro will surprise me. I have little confidence in him at all. I think he was a wasted pick and the Jets will still have a huge hole at TE. I look for Mauldin to improve, and think the pass rush has the potential to be better, but with the loss of Snacks on early downs, and possibly even the loss of Mo, it could take a step backwards even if the Jets are able to add a pass rusher in round 1 or 2. I think asking him to make the same kind of leap that Pryor did may be asking a lot. I agree that Mac is doing the right things not overpaying, setting his value and sticking to it, but you have to admit those are not usually the actions of a GM whose team is in "win now" mode, and to a large extent, he's putting the team's ability to "win now" in serious danger by doing that. He's failed to sign some players that could have helped this team (Beachum and Norwood, and probably others), and could very well wind up disrupting his offense by not retaining Fitz. While Fitz is limited as a QB, he does know Gailey's system and excels in it. His making quick decisions and getting the ball out quickly greatly helps mitigate the train wreck that is our OL.
When you have a HOF QB, you can afford to make some moves like GB did. In case you haven't noticed, we don't have that HOF QB that covers a multitude of weaknesses. LOL If you've watched the NFL for a long time and paid attention, the moves the GMs of "win now" teams have a lot in common. Tanny didn't create anything. Knowing he would probably not re-sign (not resign) Mo would be a good point. BIG CAT being too good to pass up would not, when your team had the holes and needs the Jets did and still do, and there were other very good players that met needs there at that point in the draft. If' you're "all in" to "win now," then you do everything you can to give your team the best chances to win. Picking yet another DE when your team has two topflight DEs is not improving your team that much, especially when there's a Vic Beasley and Kevin White sitting there, both of whom would have addressed huge needs that could have made the team instantly better. It should for anyone with half a brain. With Sanchez at QB, a poor OL, and losing a number of key players in FA, it should mean that are in "re-tooling" mode. Going all in with Sanchez at QB would be a textbook example of insanity. "legitimate contenders" <> "win now" No, it doesn't. That's totally absurd and faulty logic/reasoning. Mac elected to build from there because that's what almost every NFL team does now. No one has the patience for a 5-year rebuild. They rebuild or retool on the fly. This is especially true for the Jets where the fanbase hires billboards and planes to send messages to the media and owner. They try to be competitive while they're turning over their roster and getting the talent they need to be truly competitive. Mac has said this a number of times. Bowles has too, and taken it a step further in saying they're trying to establish a winning culture, regain respect around the NFL, and they're using the vets to help mentor the youngsters. You don't know more than Mac and/or Bowles. You need to listen more to what they say and put the moves they make in context with that instead of ignoring what they say and "reading between the lines" to come up with your own interpretation. There's no reason for them to have said what they did if that's not what they're actually doing. They're not giving anything away. Why not? If you're going all in to "win now" and be a serious contender, you get the best team you can. You get the best FAs you can to address some team needs (especially when you're mandated by the NFL to have to spend a ton of money), and then you continue to address needs in the draft. You don't worry about the future. Your logic is an epic fail. Mac would have never been able to spend the money the NFL mandated last season by signing only young and cheap players. Even if he could have, the roster would have been filled with scrubs and the idea of the Jets winning anything would have been farcical. He had to sign older, more expensive vets to meet the NFL's requirement and to improve the team. I don't know what your "contend for the Lombardi Trophy" <> "win now" cryptic is supposed to mean. No, I don't, and Mac didn't use up all the cap space. He had something like $4 million dollars to carry over. He was merely trying to get the Jets to a competitive level. They hadn't been at that level in 4 years and were getting worse, not better. He had to make some drastic moves. And yes, he believes in using FA to help improve the team. There's no crime in that, especially when it would take forever to replenish the Jets roster using only the draft. No GM or HC are going to accept the 5-year rebuild plan any more and suffer through a ton of losses. No fanbase is going to accept that. Teams are going to make moves to become as competitive as quickly as they can and build from there. There's no great mystery in that. No, they aren't. That's what you're basing your perspective on, and that's why your reading of the situation is wrong. You're adding 1 and 1 and coming up with 3. You couldn't be more wrong. I am not citing my personal views on players. I am citing Mac's and Bowles own words and looking at the moves they made in that context, which is the only reasonable and rational way to look at it.
Now that Cleveland reached a deal with RGIII, this may be an opportunity for the Jets to reconsider their whole QB strategy. It's obvious that Cleveland will not draft Carson Wentz, so this may be an opportunity for the Jets to move up in the draft and take a shot at him. We all know that whatever consideration is given to McCown, it probably won't lead to much more than what Fitz gave us last year. Continuing with Fitz may give us a playoff win or two but realistically, there is no SB at the end of the Fitz rainbow either. I know there are a lot of varied opinions on Wentz and whether he is a high 1st rounder, but most experts agree he is. Nevertheless, Wentz has the tools. He is young, big and has a strong arm. Yes, he came from a minor program, but so did Flacco and Roethlisberger, and they both have rings. We all know this team is not going anywhere without a top QB, so we may as well take advantage of an opportunity to get one.
And the point is what qb do we have this year? I dont need anything to make me feel smart, thata pretty obvious we have none. No ryna Fitzpatrick nor McCown are better options ove another. Theyre fillers that we dont really need because they don't improve this team. Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
see, the problem with that label is that it means different things to different people. Of course Jets are trying to win, every team does. All 32 teams are trying to win every game on their schedule. This is the stated goal of every player, coach and GM, at least until they are eliminated from PO. Does that mean Jax, Rams, Browns are in the "win now mode"? Or you think that those teams are planning to flush the season? It's a combination of best effort and reasonable expectations. Of course Jets will be trying to "win now", eg win every game on the schedule, they fucking better be. But is PO a truly the expectation for this team? How about SB appearance, do you expect Jets to play next Feb? This is why you are arguing... you have different definitions of win-now. To me "win now" means reasonable expectation of SB appearance. If this were the case, Mac better sell the house for high-impact rentals. IMO realistically the chance of Jets getting into SB is under 3%. This, to me, is not win now, no more than it is for Cle or Oak.
Winner winner chicken dinner!! Everyone seems to have their own definition of "win now" and then proceed to ague with someone that more than likely has a different definition. Can we set up an index of definitions so we can be on the same page? I would put us in the same league as the Raiders, they've got a squad and will do some damage. Browns not so much. Based on our definition, who do you see as win now teams next season?
