Mac can't sell that the team is rebuilding, when the team has very little cap space. For his sake, I say we are more win now than rebuilding.
NCJetsfan, you may disagree that the Jets are a win now team, but you dont have to respond like an asshole. And no you don't respect every poster with responses like that. You didnt respect me, and I dont believe I've ever been sharp with you. First off, ALL teams are in win now mode. And what Mac said would be the same thing any GM would say. We want to win now and win tomorrow. Duh... But unlike other teams the Jets roster is in fact older than most, and most of their best players (and 9 starters not counting Fitz) are 29 or older: 32: Brick, Harris, Mangold, Marshall 30: Forte, Revis, McClendon, Breno 29: Decker, Henderson If they aren't a win now team, why go out and sign 30 year olds like Forte and McLendon? Why sign Revis and Marshall last year? Why leave the team with little cap room in 2016? If they were playing for 2017/18 they would have been better served focusing on signing more up and comer guys like Carpenter and Skrine and paying Wilks who will be in their prime for at least a few years. The guys above have a year or two left, then they will need to be replaced too. And the Jets dont have enough draft picks or young talent to replace those 9 starters. They have no WR's on the roster that could even be envisioned to replace Marshall or Decker. Same with center and LT. So even if they get the edge rusher they covet and either Petty or a Rookie QB pans out they still need to replace those 9 starters in the next few years.
Agreed, last year was their best opportunity to make a run. They were close, but couldnt pull it together.
I guess I'm misunderstanding the meaning of "win now". I take it as we better win now bc we have the pieces but tomorrow we're in trouble.
I think the debate is that some think the Jets dont have the horses to win now, so they need to be competitive now and build for the future. I think with a defense like the Jets assembled last year (top 5 statistically though with some weaknesses) anything could happen.
its called staying relevant. you want to field a good football team at every chance. its good to have a mix of young talent and veterans, that's what we are doing now.
The Raiders didn't have any real cap space in 2013 and it was the second year of their rebuild. I don't understand what cap space has to do with anything. Either you have a solid core that is built to win or you sacrifice your core for shiny stars that want big bucks. Mac is the former, Tanny was the latter.
Apples to oranges. The reason why the Raiders didn't have any real cap space in the second year of their rebuild is because they had over $30 million dollars of dead money. Reggie McKenzie purged the roster of the bad contracts he inherited that year and the year before. We did our purging under Idzik who officially started our rebuild. Mac inherited a great amount of cap space. I know every "new" GM is always the greatest GM of all time in the eyes of Jets fans that must be defended at the slightest perceived criticism and compared to the oh so terrible Tanny. I'm not critiquing Mac's choices; I like what he's down with the roster. Just saying this is closer to a win now team than a rebuilding one. Rebuilding teams don't sign a 30 year old CB to a 5 year, $70 million contract with $39 million guaranteed. That's a win now move. Don't really follow your point. We don't have a solid core now or we have one now and didn't under Tanny?
If this front office thinks Mclowns a good idea because there gonna save money then we might as well bring Idzik back.But the truth is I don't think we have real intrest in any free agent QB besides Fitzpatrick,its all leverage play and moves to put pressure on Fitzpatrick and his agent.So far it hasn't worked and if RG3 is getting 7 mill guarnteed then Fitz deserves atleast between 10-12 mill
Mcowns been in the league since 2002 and has never played a full 16 games and hes 36 years old.This guy is a good backup and that's about it.
McCown beat out Glennon and did a fine job getting the ball to his top two WRs Vincent Jackson and Mike Evans in Tampa. Decker and Marshall are just as good as a receiving duo I think McCown would be competent but not a guy who'd have me excited going into next season.
I hope this turns into a "mike Mac is the best GM ever" thread after we INK fitz at a good price .... But.... Knowing my "same ol' jets" it's going to get real rough in here soon
I sorry you thought I answered like an asshole. I do respect you. You're a knowledgeable poster and seem like a good guy. That's why I asked you to please stop. I didn't belittle, insult you or put you down. Was I frustrated? Yes, because I'm fed up with seeing people post what I think is a ridiculous, misguided opinion that defies logic. People can have misguided opinions, and I think your opinion on this is misguided. Several other posters on this site have claimed it was a "win now" team and other posters and I have clearly showed several times why this is not the case. If the Jets were in a "win now" mode, Mac wouldn't have taken Williams last year in the 1st round. He would have traded up to get a player he thought we needed, stayed put and taken the next best player at a position of need, or traded down and taken a player that he thought could help us immediately at a position of need. If we were in a "win now" mode, Mac wouldn't have traded up to take Petty in the 4th round. He would have taken a player at a position of need that could have contributed sooner. If we were in a "win now mode," Mac would have certainly signed Beachum and/or Okung, and at the least Giacomini would be gone, if not both Giacomini and Brick. The OL would have been a priority over DL depth. If we were in a win now mode, Mac would already have a QB in place, we wouldn't be staring at the possibility of signing a vet like Josh McCown (or worse) or Geno starting. He wouldn't be hanging around waiting on Fitz. He would have traded for Kaepernick. For any "win now" team, QB is key. No one in their right mind would think they were legitimate contenders if they didn't have a legit starting QB. The Jets may be older than most, I don't have the stats on that, and don't care. Regardless, imo, that is irrelevant. Every team needs a blend of veterans and rookies. Most of their best players are older, that's an established fact. It's probably also a fact that most of those players will be gone in 2 years. Mac is simply trying to get the best players he can that fit the team's systems regardless of age, and not just signing young players. Few, if any, teams do the traditional rebuild 5-year plan any more. No one has the patience, least of all the fans. Instead, they try to retool on the fly. After the debacle with Rex for the previous 4 years, there's no way Jets fans would have put up with a very young team beating themselves with rookie mistakes for 3-4 years. The Jets needed to establish some respectability and to establish a culture of winning and accountability. You don't do that with a bunch of young, inexperienced players. You do that with smart, experienced vets who can help mentor the youngsters. The Jets seemingly have a great HC in Bowles. If they tried to do the traditional rebuild and lost most of their games their first 2-3 years, do you think Bowles would still be around? How about Mac? Why sign Forte and McLendon? For several reasons: need, value, and because they were the best players available at the right price. No smart GM wants to go into the draft having to draft players at a position because of need. The Jets needed at least 2 RBs if they re-signed Powell. Forte, while older, is still a very good player according to all accounts I've read. I initially thought he was too old and wouldn't have much life left in his legs, but everything I've read says that I was wrong. He's a perfect fit for Gailey's offense. With Snacks joining the Giants, the Jets had a need at NT. If they were doing the traditional 5-year rebuild, they would have just gone with Simon. Why sign Revis? Because the secondary was their biggest need, the NFL had mandated that they had to spend a bunch of money, and they were trying to be as competitive as possible. That doesn't mean they think they were/are good enough to contend for the Lombardi Trophy. Why trade for Marshall? To make the team better and more competitive, to give the team a legit #1 WR. Their offense had been a joke for years. Marshall gave them an immediate weapon and made them better. Leave the team with little cap room in 2016? They had little room to begin with and a bunch of needs. They had a ton of FAs. You can't sign young up and coming players if they aren't available or don't fit your system. It's obvious that the team isn't going to be able to be built solely with draft picks. As I stated in a previous post on another thread, Mac could trade down in every round acquiring extra picks for 5 straight years, and we still wouldn't have enough players to make up for all the blown/wasted draft picks under Tanny and Idzik. Mac is going to have to sign FAs to help improve and fill out the roster. It would be pointless to sign a bunch of young players who were no good. Young excellent players usually don't make it to FA unless they have character issues or unless they want too much money. It's going to take at least 3-4 drafts along with the continual addition of quality veteran FAs to build a real contender, and probably 5-7 drafts (or more) to have a team built primarily with draft picks. Finally, looking at those 9 players, if you were a GM, would you think that's the type of core with whom you could win a Lombardi Trophy? Only 4 of those players are topflight players (Mangold, Marshall, Revis, and Forte). Decker's a very good #2 and with Marshall makes a great tandem, but without a quality QB or a good OL to protect the QB and give him time to find an open receiver, it doesn't matter how great a WR tandem you have. Harris is a good run-stuffing LB, but is awful in coverage and has no speed. Henderson is a decent ILB, but certainly nothing to get excited about. Brick was one of the worst OTs in the NFL last season. Breno is awful and was one of the worst in the NFL last season. McLendon is a rotational player who has some versatility. Fitz succeeded last year because he got rid of the ball so quickly. Again if the Jets were all in to "win now" don't you think Fitz would have been re-signed since he makes the OL not as much of a liability, has a great chemistry with Marshall and Decker, knows Gailey's system so well, and would give continuity? Do you really think that Mac would be "low-balling" him as some claim and risking alienating or losing him? No, he'd have already upped his offer until they struck a deal. There would have been none of this meeting with RG3, talking about McCown, Kaepernick or other QBs.
I follow the NFL closely enough to know who the best QBs are. I also know enough about the Jets, their weaknesses, and think I am realistic enough to believe that even if my comment was perhaps a bit of hyperbole, I'm not that far off. Having a great QB helps certainly, but if that QB can't stay healthy and on the field, it doesn't matter how great he is. If he doesn't have time to find open receivers, it doesn't matter how great he is. If the defense can't stop opponents on 3rd down and get off the field, and the other team continually has long sustained drives, it doesn't matter how great your QB is if he doesn't get that many chances to score, and has a ton of pressure on him when he does get on the field.
