Conklin is like a poor man's Joe Thomas IMO [which isn't a bad thing at all]. Definitely taking him at 20 if he's there. He'll play RT for a few seasons then move over to LT.
Not really, I just see it as a necessity. Also, like Mac, I don't believe in drafting OGs or Cs high. OTs one almost has to take in the first round, especially LTs. If you look at where the OL whose profiles I posted are predicted to be drafted, they're all in the middle and lower rounds.
A few seasons at RT? Are you serious? Not on the Jets he won't. Brick should be gone after this season. No way he should play a down for us in 2017.
At this day and age you need 2 tackles that can pass protect. I think Brick can hold the spot next season, if his play declines that much he'll be gone in 2017. I wouldn't want to cut him until we have our line fixed up. He's still average in a league where the majority is below average.
It's not often that we disagree, but I have to totally disagree with you on this one. He was ranked in the bottom third of OTs this past season. He gave up 40 QB pressures or hurries. He's never been a good run blocker, and now his pass blocking skills are failing. He's set to make $14,107,000 this season and $14,307,000 next season. That's insane. You don't pay that for a mediocre player. If they cut him after this season, they can save over $13 million on next year's cap. I'm sorry, but I think you're just flat out misguided on this. I'd rather just cut him now and sign Okung or a stop gap for a year or two.
Question, how much do you think this factors into team's decisions and where they are selected? For instance, Cody Whitehair has been listed as the top OG in the draft, but he only had 16 lifts. That's pretty bad, if not awful. Taylor Decker only had 20. Le'Raven Clark only had 18.
Okung isn't special either, but I don't anticipate Brick being under that cap number, if he disagrees then he's not coming back no doubt.
LT are the exception but there have been gems in later rounds that have had time to develop behind starters for a few years.
We've tried the whole draft mid and late round offensive lineman and say a hail mary that they develop into starters. It hasn't worked and has essentially left the cubbard bare with talent with little depth. There's a reason that if we got ultra aggressive we could be looking at replacing both our tackles. The Steelers took DeCastro, Marcus Gilbert, Pouncey and Mike Adams with their 4/6 of their two picks from 2010-2012. 3 of them have been consistent starters. Your theory makes sense in this case as they scored big with their LT Kelvin Beachum in the 7th. The Cowboys built a brick wall and have had awesome running games as a result, even putting aging McFadden over a thousand yards with a garbage passing game (one of only I believe 9 rushers over 1,000 yards). The Seahawks took Max Unger in the 2nd, then Russell Okung and James Carpenter in back to back first rounds to build a running game that their offense relied on in a Superbowl run. It can go both ways but I feel as though it's not a bad formula to inherit when the teams been deprived of youthful offensive lineman for a long time and we've simply relied on free agent signings for nearly a decade since Brick and Mangold were taken (Pete Kendall, Alan Fanecs, Damien Woody, Willie Colon, James Carpenter). At the same time we tried plugging Winters in in 2013/2014 and he as horrendous, everyone remembers the Wayne Hunter disaster. I understand it's a new regime but we have the oldest offensive line in the league. We need youth at that spot.
I agree. I think we're going to ride D'Brickashaw through one more year. There's too many gaping holes on this team to cut ties with him while we have a below average right tackle and a question mark at right guard. I'd rather take the risk and improve the defensive talent in a deeper defensive class than reach for a tackle that is most definitely going to be a career right tackle. If you take an offensive lineman you are sure they are going to start immediately. The only guy in this class that doesn't seem to have question marks is Tunsil.
I do agree that our OL is getting a bit long in the tooth but they are still good players. Mangold is still a top 10 Center and Brick is still a top 15 LT. Winters and Breno suck I totally agree, Carp played very well as a FA signing. You mentioned Pitt, they needed to boost their OL because the first few years Ben was getting destroyed and Bruce Ariens eventually took the bullet for that. They drafted to protect their star QB and that makes complete sense! Look at Carolina they had an epic season and who was their LT? Journeymen Oher that was cast off by both the Ravens and Titans. Only Kalil was a high draft pick of theirs. I think the perceived notion that if you draft a OL in the first he will be a starter on ur team for the next decade is fools gold. I also feel that taking a LT in the first isn't our priority this year. Maybe down the road but not in this draft unless a stud like Stanley falls to us somehow and we can plug him in at RT and cut Breno.
I agree that Okung isn't that special. I just through his name out as an example of a player who would give us roughly the same level of play, perhaps a little better, for less money. I don't think Brick will be cut if he refuses to take a pay cut. I think he's here this year, but will be his last year.
That was with incompetent GMs and scouts doing the picking and incompetent coaches doing the developing. You're talking apples and oranges. We have to see how Mac does and how TB and his staff do developing young players. When you take OL with 1st round picks, you wind up having to overpay them and you have no cap space to pay play makers. Have you forgotten already the bind the Jets were in not too long ago when they had so much money tied up in the OL and they had no play makers? No thanks. IMO you use a 1st round pick on your LT and maybe a low 1st or 2nd round pick on your RT. The OGs and C can come from the 3rd round down if possible. No one's arguing that we don't need an infusion of youth and talent on our OL.
No Brick isn't still a top 15 LT. He was rated as a bottom third OT this past season. He allowed 40 pressures/hurries. He is below average and only going to get worse. That said, I agree with the rest of your post. We don't need an OL comprised of 1st and 2nd round picks. That's silly.
I agree to the point where I think we'll hedge our bet on the old offensive line and look to stretch them one more year without a high pick but I do tend to believe that that is circumstantial to the talent that will be available when we are picking. I was just trying to prove the point that there are various cases around the league where building the offensive line with early picks has been successful. There are cases around the league where teams get by without addressing it early in the draft. Another point is that we've been massively unsuccessful in trying to do that, not hitting on a single mid round offensive lineman that I can even remember since at least Herm was here and likely dating back to Parcells' regime. A good offensive line can go a long way in even helping the defense by controlling the clock via the running game. It's smart to build through the trenches. Stanley and Tunsil will both likely be gone and I'd imagine the rest of the prospects receive second or third round grades from our scouts. Just to note, if we gain an extra pick via trade down or a deal for Wilkerson I fully expect one of our first three picks to be an offensive line. It'll be terrible negligence if this regime doesn't make an effort to build it not only for next year but the future IMO.
You could be right. I hope that they will seek to replace either Winters or Giacomini, but probably won't be able to unless Jarvis Harrison can beat out Winters in TC. Yes, there's no one way to build an OL. It is vitally important that we build a strong OL for the reason you stated, as well as for scoring points and keeping the opponents' offense off the field. Maybe Jason Spriggs will be there at our pick in the 2nd round, or maybe Mac will surprise us and trade down from #20 and take Spriggs. Who knows, he could possibly beat out Giacomini and potentially replace Brick at LT next year. Some posters like OT Joe Haeg of N. Dakota St. Maybe he'll be there in the 3rd or 4th round and in a year or two will develop into our new starting RT. There are some decent OG prospects as well. I think that Mac will definitely address the OL in the draft. I also expect him to take a RB and OLB. It's going to be interesting to see what happens in the next couple of months.
I'm absolutely fine with rolling with Brick for 1 more season. If we can upgrade the right side with a blue chip lineman like Conklin, he can take over Brick's spot in 2017. Then we would still have to upgrade that right side again. Cornerback is a position to watch in this draft too, very deep class as well. No superstars, but very solid starters. I expect us to upgrade the dime and nickel positions, as well as provide competition for the outside. Marcus Williams should start the season.
I totally agree with what u were saying about how teams build their OL differently but have had success. Very good point. If we do get an extra pick I think Mac will address the OL in the 2nd round and hopefully take a RT that could maybe evolve into our future LT! I just don't want to reach for a OL when I feel we have some time to develop them under our current group besides Winters/Breno.
Combine Winners and Losers today according to Bucky Brooks at NFL.com Winners Jason Spriggs, offensive tackle, Indiana: The Hoosiers' standout is squarely in the first-round conversation after displaying exceptional speed and athleticism on the turf. Spriggs clocked the best 40 time among offensive linemen (4.94) and flashed ballerina-like quickness during drills. He easily executed turns and transitions during positional drills. Most importantly, he showed good balance and body control shuffling laterally on the kick-and-slide and mirror drills. Given the number of teams in need of a pure left tackle, Spriggs' performance certainly could make him a Day 1 selection in April. Jack Conklin, offensive tackle, Michigan State: The former walk-on surprised scouts with his athleticism, balance and body control. He showcased exceptional agility and movement skills in bag drills, while also displaying light feet and swivel hips in change-of-direction drills. With Conklin also posting a 5.00-second time in the 40-yard dash and showing short-area explosiveness in the agility drills, Friday was a fine day for the Michigan State product. Losers Vadal Alexander, offensive tackle/guard, LSU: The LSU standout was expected to make a jump up the charts following a strong performance at the combine, but his disappointing showing could lead to a bit of a drop instead. Alexander appeared heavy-legged in positional drills and his pedestrian 40 time (5.57) will lead scouts to question his ability to play on the outside.
