The sooner Geno is traded to f-cking Cleveland the sooner we can move on with our lives. Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk
Ryan F did a great job. And nearly led them to the playoffs. Maybe give it another year or two for Petty.
For a guy with low football IQ, Geno usually makes the right reads on his throws; I will always give him credit for that. His lack of anticipation, however, negates that as the ball is rarely on time. Is hard to understand how one can become a Genobot. There's not one skill Geno does particularly well or attribute that he possesses that's exceptional. Of the few positives he has, the best one can say is that he is above average IMO. -Arm good not great -Athletisism (see arm) -Size average -Accuracy OK -Anticipation poor -Football IQ low -Leadership none -Wins not many -Heart ? I wouldn't consider him a guy that makes you want to go buy his jersey.
I see ZERO upside in geno... the faster he is Gone The Better... He Is ONLY a Distraction at this point :/
Here's the other thing besides what we've discussed. If Bryce Petty after a full year of development with the Jets can't surpass Smith on the depth chart this off season, as bad as Smith is, then we can say something about Petty, and it ain't good. If he can't do that, then he's very unlikely to ever develop enough, quickly enough, to become an effective starter for the Jets. It doesn't seem to me to be too much to ask of Petty, to get past that shitload on the depth chart. If he can't do that now, what are the odds of him improving enough later? And two things follow from the foregoing: 1. If Petty DOES go up to 2 on the depth chart, what is the point of retaining Smith? Better look to some other younger Qb, even one not a high draft pick this year, to develop behind Petty. 2. If Petty can't beat out Smith, then the Jets need to look very hard elsewhere for a young Qb to develop sooner than later, perhaps even going high draft pick this draft. This follows since Fitzpatrick is no more than a two to three at most year stopgap, and realistically I am not sure how much we want to depend on him in 17. If Petty is that bad, then who are the Jets expecting to step in when Fitz begins declining? It sure as shit ain't Smith. ANd if the Jets in this scenario don't go high pick for Qb this draft, then they go into next off season with Fitz a year older and no Qb on the roster slated to replace him. Then what? FA? Count on a Qb from the draft to replace Fitz, perhaps as early as the 17 season? No thanks. I think doing nothing, counting on the current three, makes no sense, despite Smith's contract. Now, back to your point, there is one exception. Smith stays if Petty can't beat him out and the best they could do this off season is a Qb who also can't beat out Smith. But that would be a sorry scenario as far as Petty's prospects are concerned, and leaves the Jets depending on making a big move next off season that might be very difficult. Now I admit as a fan I don't want to see Smith take another snap for the Jets. But that doesn't mean I don't have a point here.
Following my previous post, the schedule of the off season is also a problem. The draft will have occurred well before camp and pre-season, so they can't wait to see if Petty fails to beat Smith out. They probably need to know how they feel about Petty now. I don't envy Macc's situation on this, as for several other issues. Probably the best we can hope for as fans is that the CS his already high on Petty's development to date.
You potentially have a point. I'll give you that. IMO you only have a point if they make the backup spot a true competition between Petty and Smith. They may want Petty to just continue focusing on what he needs to learn free from the distraction and pressure of having to prepare for games each week. Depending upon what he needed to work on, becoming the backup could delay Petty's or any QB's development, because they're focusing on that week's opponent and the game plan, not their issues that need work. They may just hand the backup spot to Geno due to his two years of playing experience vs. none for Petty, or they may hand it to Smith figuring he's ready to be a backup, but that's all he'll ever be, while Petty still has potential to become a starter, but needs more work. Where I agree with you somewhat, is if there is a competition and Petty beats out Smith. In that scenario, Geno would have less value. That said, just adding a QB to add a #3 to your roster is kind of pointless unless you think the guy has some real potential. I think this QB class pretty much rivals that one of the 2013 draft, that is to say it's sorry. There's only 2-3 QBs in this draft that I think I'd use a roster spot on. The rest would be a waste. Geno at least knows the offense and has some value. If there's a true competition and Geno beats out Petty, it could mean that Geno's not as bad as you think and has improved, it could mean that Petty needs more work in one facet of his game and they want him to be able to that and not upcoming opponents, or it could mean that Petty will never develop. The thing is, we'll have no real idea what the truth is unless they choose to tell us. We'll just be guessing like usual.
I agree BB, if Petty can't overtake Geno or at least make it a competitive competition, the prospects aren't looking good for Petty. 1. If Petty can move up the chart and beat Geno, I wouldn't mind cutting Geno Smith, but he is very cheap and he does know Chan's system. That's really the only thing Geno Smith has going for him right now. 2. Then we are back to square 1 more than likely. I don't think the Jets are going to draft a QB this year, but next year if Petty hasn't made the strides needed to give the CS confidence, I could see us going after a QB somehow someway either via draft or FA. You do have a point, if I were the GM to be honest, I would take a QB in this draft and cut Smith all together.
Fair points, and I am grateful you in turn acknowledged some merit to mine. Turning to yours... Yes, it is possible the CS is both encouraged by Petty's progress and still in the short run give the backup nod to Smith. And of course the concerns about the Qb draft class both may affect this analysis and also is independent of the Smith v. Petty assessment. In other words on the latter point (and I meant to imply this while I did not take the time to state it explicitly) that getting another Qb in here under any scenario assumes that person is worthy enough of getting a roster spot and shows potential. On that second point and while the draft class may look weak, we at this point do not know what the Jets might be able to come up with. But I think we can say despite the big holes elsewhere in the roster that the FO would be foolish to ignore the Qb position in the draft, even if limited to a BPA analysis, if the Jets at this point literally think Smith is a better Qb than Petty. Which brings us back to that first point I addressed above. I think the distance between your pov and mine is I think Smith has already demonstrated that Smith is bad and has reached too low a ceiling for us to even feel he would be a competent backup. Nothing he showed in the Raiders game, for example, makes me begin to feel otherwise, let alone have confidence in him. That seems to leave your questioning whether the CS will hold a true competition between them. Again I would be concerned about that on two counts. First is why would they at this point merely ink Smith in as the backup? He does not deserve to be, even if the CS were otherwise inclined to favor experience over potential as it were. Second is my concern about the draft preceding camp. What is relevant there is that I hope the CS ALREADY prefers Petty to Smith, or conversely at worst is ALREADY of the view that Petty is not going to amount to being a starter. At least then they can look at the draft based on their assessment, not needing to wait until camp to know what to do about these two.
Yes, as I said in response to NC, if the draft prospects are really that poor it can override what to do here. But let's be clear about that - if Petty even at this point does not look like he is able to overcome Smith in the depth chart, will be this camp, given Smith's level of performance, then an awful lot is going to depend on making the right moves in next year's off season. Maybe Petty makes this all moot by surpassing Smith. Maybe the Jets are comfortable enough with Petty's development and also to short term rely on Smith. But sicne I think it a given that Smith will not be the Qb who replaces Fitz in either 17 or 18, there's a lot up in the air if we don't see Petty giving some signs of being recognized as the answer.
I think the issue Mac is dealing with for 2016 is timing more so than whether he wants to keep geNO longer term. Free Agency.. then Draft.. then OTA's... then Minicamp.. then Training camp The timing doesn't work this year to dump geNO. They won't know if Petty is capable of competing with geNO for the #2 spot or being capable of beating him out for #2 until well after free agent period and the draft are over. If you're the GM and your up against cap space and you're not sure if your QB pick (Petty) is ready to move up the depth chart you cannot leave the team without a viable back up. If you keep geNO your cost isn't great, you have a QB who's been in the system and can fill in if Fitz goes down (I'm not saying he'll play well but its a viable option in their minds) so it gives you the insurance you need in the even that Petty progresses slowly. If you dump geNO now and draft a QB you're forcing Petty into the #2 role which you won't know if he's capable of handling until after FA's are signed. A GM cannot allow themselves to be put in that situation. If you dump geNO now and sign a capable vet he will likely cost more which precludes you from making other FA moves to help the team. So looking at this solely from the "what's best for the team" perspective you keep the cheap insurance and use the excess $$ it would have cost to sign a viable FA QB to fill other needs to strengthen the team. I'm not a believer in geNO and never was but as cheap backup insurance they need to keep him this year and pray he never sees the field.
Again, fair points. While Mac has praised the progress of both Geno and Petty, we don't know how sincere that is. He could merely be saying that to try to drum up some trade value for Geno. He could merely be saying that to disguise the fact that the Jets are intent on taking a QB in this draft. He could be saying it to try to build up one or both of their confidence, hoping against hope that might improve their play, or he could be sincere about one or both. If the Jets do draft a QB, then I think Geno will definitely go. If they draft a QB and Petty is the one who is cut, I'd be surprised not only that they think Geno is better, but that they gave up on Petty so quickly. We don't have the benefit of looking at QBs the way they do. They've seen them up close and personal in practice, workouts, in the classroom. They have feedback from the QB coach and Gailey. They have more knowledge than we do about the game and its finer points. So with that said, they could rate Geno a higher than any of us do. I doubt it, but I suppose anything is possible. I don't think we're that far apart on Geno. I'm not quite at the same point as you yet, so I'm not totally ready to give up on Geno yet, but am getting perilously close. I think he needs to demonstrate vastly improved situational awareness, instincts and/or poise in off season practices and TC. I am willing to give him a little more wiggle room because of the obviously poor coaching he received in college, and his being thrown to the wolves with an awful OL, no weapons to help him, and a totally clueless HC and OC his first two seasons. That said, I do suspect that if the Jets had plenty of cap space this off season, and there were a number of good QB prospects in the draft that they liked, that they would plan to jettison Geno immediately following the draft if they get a QB they like. If you're correct about his Jets teammates not liking or not believing in Geno, then they probably would cut him anyway. The thing is, I think their choices are very limited due to the cap constraints and having to deal with Mo. As to why the Jets would merely ink Smith in as the backup, it could be for one of the reasons I pointed out, i.e., Petty's not quite ready to play and they want to give him that time to develop and not slow his progress by having him prepare for the game each week, or because Geno has two years of playing experience in the NFL while Petty has none. We've already seen that Bowles seems to tend to gravitate towards veterans over rookies. That's understandable, even when the rookie is more talented than the veteran, because rookies make more mistakes, which can cost games. I do think they have already decided what they think about both Petty and Smith and their respective potential/abilities, etc. I don't think they need another TC. If they don't think Petty is the answer, or if they have any doubts at all about him, then I think they will look to add a QB in the draft. If they don't add a QB in the draft, then I think it either says that they believe in Petty or they just didn't like any of the QBs in the draft enough to use a draft pick on one.
The thing that both you and 101ganggreen101 seem to be missing is that they may opt to keep Geno as the backup and it have absolutely nothing to do with whether Petty can surpass him on the depth chart. Petty isn't going to be able to develop as quickly if he's having to prepare for the upcoming opponent each week as the backup than he would if he didn't have to worry about the upcoming opponent and could just focus on the areas in which he needs to improve. I think the Jets' main focus is to get him ready to start in 2017 if he's capable. Therefore, why distract him by having him serve as backup when they have Geno who knows the offense and has starting experience? That gives Geno some value and purpose and allows them to give Petty the best chance to develop. As we all know, when any NFL team is forced to play its backup QB, more than likely it's a losing proposition. Who is second on the depth chart could be totally meaningless. I think you're both falling prey to the limited thinking that the 2nd best QB on the team has to be #2 on the depth chart.
i've said it numerous times...we're in decent shape at the position. Fitz is gonna cost some money to re-sign, but it looks manageable. It seems the consensus here is that Petty needs another year to marinate. That may be true, but I'm eager to see him get lots of preseason snaps.
I mentioned timing is an issue at post 807. Still I would like to think the CS and FO already have an idea whether Petty is the better prospect to fill backup Qb this coming season and beyond. I know that is not necessarily the case. I can understand they may feel they do not have enough info on Petty even if they are optimistic as of now. But yes, the timing is such that if they do NOT know that now, whatever additional info they get in camp will come after the draft, and after FA as well for that matter.
As you allude to in your final thought, if they don't draft a Qb it will tell us something, but not all that clear a something. One little caveat, though -- if they really think both Smith and Petty are not the answer, feel that is likely the case even now, then they will do more heavy lifting this off season to address that, rather than if they just think they want to cut Smith and might go Qb with a lower pick in the draft, as a long term development play, maybe even to backup or give some competition to Petty once Smith is gone, medium term. I understand your point about preferring vets. But in this situation I would be surprised that would be the overriding factor in inking in Smith, if God forbid that were to occur. No, if they inked him in and did not even have a competition, that would say bad things about Petty. We are not that far apart on Smith, but enough apart that while I understand there is some theoretical possibility he might improve, I think that is so unlikely that it's not worth thinking about. I completely agree with your first paragraph's points. Except I am optimistic enough to think what Macc has said about Petty having made progress cannot be a complete dissembling lie, because we probably would have heard something at this point if he sucked that bad.
I do not disagree here as a matter of general principle, but would merely add that wehther your take here fits depends on Petty's situation. How far he has progressed, whether the areas he needs attention on would be better served not "worrying" about learning the game plan and that sort of thing. It depends on the Qb in question.
