I've cooled on Goff. I still like him as a early second to mid second rounder or so, but his ball placement inconcstency and fear in the pocket at times concerns me a bit. To me at times, he's great under pressure, like against Utah despite the picks, but then he his games against Oregon where has a bad start and can't recover . I also have concerns about his celling; but for all I know he may have an elite football IQ and pick up a more complex offense quickly. I'm not crazy about any of these Quarterbacks, but I really don't understand how anyone can watch Wentz and think that guy is an elite talent. Solid Player? Yes, but he scares me.
You're definitely right and I thought about it after I posted it. Some guys don't end up having the frame or genes to put on that muscle mass though. That's where HGH comes into play... If there is no HGH involved players can sometimes put on the mass no problem but they lose an incredible amount of quickness.
265 is tops for me as well, but I prefer 260 or lighter. I don't think a team would want all of their OLBs on the lighter side, but one starter at 240 or 245 is fine imo, because above all speed is perhaps the most important asset for a pass rusher. I used to think more like you and want the OLBs more in the 250s and 260s, but am changing my mind. I decided to take a look at some of the better teams who run the 3-4 D base to see what size their LBs are, and it looks like teams are opting for lighters 3-4 LBs in general. I think that's probably due to the NFL moving to more of a passing league rather than a running league. Following are the Steelers' LBs with their heights and weights. The Steelers didn't list theirs by OLB or ILB, so I'm making some educated guesses. OLB Anthony Chickillo (rookie) 6'3", 267 OLB Bud Dupree 6'4", 269 ILB LJ Fort 6'0", 232 ILB Terrence Garvin 6'2", 222 OLB James Harrison 6'0", 242 OLB Jarvis Jones 6'3", 248 ILB Arthur Moats 6'0, 246 ILB Ryan Shazier, 6'1", 230 ILB Lawrence Timmons 6'1", 234 ILB Vince Williams 6'1", 233 ILB Jordan Zumwalt 6'4", 235 Following are the Broncos' LBs with heights and weights. OLB Shaquil Barrett 6'2", 250 ILB Todd Davis 6'1', 230 ILB Brandon Marshall 6'1", 250 OLB Von Miller 6'3", 250 OLB Lorentee McCray 6'3", 249 ILB Corey Nelson 6'1", 226 OLB Shane Ray 6'3", 243 ILB Danny Trevathan 6'1", 240 OLB DeMarcus Ware 6'4", 258 Following are the Bills' LBs with heights and weights. LB Nigel Bradham 6'2", 241 LB Preston Brown 6'2", 251 DE (OLB?) Lavar Edwards 6'4", 275 LB Ik Enempali 6'1", 251 DE (OLB?) Jerry Hughes 6'2", 254 DE (OLB?) Manny Lawson 6'5", 240 LB Kevin Reddick 6'1", 240 LB AJ Tarpley 6'2", 242 OLB Max Valles 6'4", 250 We could look further, but it seems that either NFL teams are looking for lighter, faster players, or there just aren't the bigger (both taller and heavier) players coming out of college any more.
I don't think anyone is claiming that Wentz is an "elite" QB prospect or a Luck-level prospect, but he has great size, mobility, and a cannon for an arm that can make all the throws. In addition, he's supposedly smart. There are at least tools to work with.
Yep. Doubling down would increase the chances that the Jets would get a quality starter and QB of the future.
What's more important, QB, OLB or OT? Listen, no one has wanted a stud pass rusher more than me. I've been clamoring for one for over 10 years. The problem is I'm not sure there is one in this draft, and even if there is/are, he/they could very likely be gone by pick #20. I've been calling for the Jets to draft Brick's replacement for 3 years now. Again, there aren't many LT prospects in this draft, and the top OTs will probably be gone as well. Hence, the Jets' pick may be between Ezekiel Elliott, Wentz, an ILB, or another DT. I'm not saying I definitely want Wentz regardless of who's there. I'm just saying that if the Jets take him I won't be unhappy unless he turns out to be a bust. The only thing I'm sure of is that I don't want another DL taken with the 1st round pick.
If we take another DT I'm going to rip all of my hair out, unless we plan on playing a 5 defensive tackle front.
Most of the players at lighter weights you listed aren't starters, so those are really poor examples. Jarvis Jones sucks, Shane Ray doesn't play outside of obvious passing situations. Looks at the starting above average NFL outside linebackers in the 3-4 like I listed. We want to follow the prototype of the studs in this league, not the guys that barely made the roster. Don't forget that most of the Bills linebackers in place played in the 4-3 prior to Rex's hire. Mauldin already looks like he can be pushed around. There's a reason players like Randy Gregory, and lankier dudes in the 240 range fall in the draft. Teams don't want singular pass rushers that can pushed around in the run game, and I certainly don't want them on the Jets especially when we're weighing the options of losing Harrison and/or Wilkerson further depleting the beef upfront. 3-4 outside backers that garner a first round pick need to be 3-down players unless you have the luxury of a team like Seattle with Irvin or Denver with Shane Ray to draft players that can plays situationally early in their careers and pray they're able to build mass without losing speed while easing them into the spot. We don't have that luxury.
His arm isn't really a cannon, but it's good. Regardless, we've seen many many Quarterbacks with this exact profile become busts. If the Jets take QB, I'll be fine with this decision. I'm not an expert and have been wrong before, but I'm not sold on any of these guys.
That's fair. I'm not sold on any of them, either. I just think that Wentz has the best potential of any of the QBs in this draft.
K Mack came into league at 253 , he is now legitimately 265 pounds. Why he was first team all pro at two positions. De and Olb. Von Miller and Khalil Mack are two different type of players.( have totally different games that separate both players)
Okay well he's listed at 250. I never compared them as players, all I compared was how quick they are off the ball. I'm not sure what inside sources you have or what listing you're going by. I haven't personally asked him to step on a scale lately so I don't have his exact poundage written down.
I know that most of them aren't starters. I was just showing weights for purposes of discussion. Perhaps my memory is faulty and I may be mistaken, but I believe that overall the weights of LBs have dropped over the last few years. What LBs did you list? I haven't seen any list by you or anyone else other than the one I posted. You're correct that most of the Bills' LBs played in a 4-3 prior to Rex's hire. He's one of the ones who likes heavier LBs, so I expect the weights to go up for LBs in Buffalo. Randy Gregory didn't fall in the draft because he weighed only 240. He fell because he's a bit of a nut job and had legal troubles involving pot. I agree that 3-4 OLBs need to be 3-down players and I don't want them getting pushed around. Have James Harrison and Von Miller been pushed around? Are they 3-down players? Does Ryan Shazier get pushed around at only 230? That's very light for an ILB who has to sometimes take on OGs. I think that my point stands that all OLBs don't have to be 260 or 265. I don't follow every team in the NFL or all OLBs, nor do I have time to research all of them. I'd be interested to see your list and what those top OLBs weigh. Edit: I found your list. I don't know why, but I didn't get notification of your earlier response. As I said, I have no problem with OLBs being 250-260, I just don't want them too much heavier because they lose speed and quickness unless they're an athletic freak. We've been there, done that, bought the T-shirt with heavier OLBs that could stuff the run but were horrible in coverage and rushing the passer. I'm sick of that and wouldn't care if one of our OLBs did get pushed around a little bit defending the run if he excelled in coverage and in rushing the QB. That's their primary importance and what our D has sorely needed for 10+ years. Our DL does a great job of stuffing the run, and with the NFL being mostly a passing league, defending against the run is not nearly as important as it used to be.
Again you're listing exceptions to the rule. Miller is an unreal talent yet he still plays at 250. Shazier is the fastest middle linebacker in the NFL and big surprise he gets hurt all the time because of his light weight. He also plays with 3 huge and very good defensive lineman in front of him. Jarvis Jones is 240 and he sucks. Barkevious Mingo plays at 240 and it's no surprise that the Browns front 7 struggled on containing edge rushes. Melvin Ingram for the Chargers finally had somewhat of a breakout season after sucking for the better part of 3 years playing below 250. Those are really the only cases of 3-4 outside linebackers playing below the target weight. You really don't want to take a chance on players who struggle to put on weight because the odds are against them being able to take the NFL grind at anything below 250, and as I listed almost all of the elite guys play at 260 or higher. It's like 5'8" receivers. Sure there's a couple guys that stick around the league despite the odds but they're usually below average or nothing more than average #3 or #4. I get your point. The one saving grace is that if we lock up Mo we have so much beef up front that we could pray that a Leonard Floyd can get up to 250 and be protected by the other defensive lineman. We don't really want to go get a guy that needs X amount of years to put on weight and become productive ala Melvin Ingram. This defense is too desperate for speed and production on the edge to ease someone into a starting role.
It's really not a bad argument, and he is definitely on the lighter side. I like his length and explosion though, definitely a superb athlete. If he weighs in at a good weight at the combine and does what I expect him to do the rest of the way his stock will only go up.
