I disagree. At least one of those two times, ODB was taking a shot at Norman, and Norman was merely knocking his arms aside. He wasn't swinging at his head. Even if he was, ODB was going at him the entire game and the refs were doing little. ODB should have been ejected long before Norman started getting chippy back.
I totally disagree. ODB was taking shots at Norman the entire game. If you had been Norman, wouldn't you have gotten fed up with it and lost your cool as well. Now I agree that Norman was the initial instigator to get into ODB's head, and he succeeded totally, then Norman just started playing football. Most of the time he was't even covering ODB. The announcers talked about that for much of the game. ODB should have been ejected by at least early in the 3rd qtr. if not by half time. Did you read the article regarding the bat? A number of other teams have black bats too, and it has nothing to do with threatening players on the other team. It's a motivational tool to help them play tough and hard. You can't seriously believe that ODB thought the Panthers players were going to bring the bat on the field and kneecap him or something.
You come on. He could have seriously injured Norman. Could have concussed him and knocked him out for the rest of the season or broken his neck and ended his career. I don't hate ODB, but was shocked what an immature punk he showed himself to be. His head was not in the game at all. Norman wasn't even covering him most of the time, yet ODB was looking for him.
I don't know if you're being sarcastic or obtuse, but those are not weapons. Opposing teams are not worried that they're going to be hit by a sledgehammer or bat. It's just a motivational tool to psyche themselves up.
I was agreeing with you. I know what the sledgehammers are for, just like I know what the bat was for. It's a traditional thing with a bunch of colleges-an honor really who gets to carry it on a game by game basis. It's purely a motivational thing. I may be a dick but I'm not an idiot _
Well I thought I knew you well enough that we would have agreed, but for a minute there I thought maybe you had had too much holiday grog or something! LOL
I'd give them both the same punishment - whatever that ends up being. No one can argue that Beckham wasn't wrong. Clearly he was. From what I've read, Beckham didn't light off because of the words alone. If he acted like that over a bunch of words, I would suspend him alone. But from what I've read, Beckham went off the rails after Norman delivered the body slam. If that's the case, then Norman needs to be corrected too. Someone here said it takes two to tango. That's what my dad always said. But my dad also said, "Don't make me come over there, because if one of you gets hit, you both get hit." That's the way it has to be, because instigating has to have consequences. If you let the instigator off the hook, you're telling him he's not responsible for what he started, and that it's okay to instigate. That means he'll just keep doing it.
I hear what you're saying, but there's a difference here. Did you see the game? If you did, I don't think there's any way you could take that stance. Yes, Norman made a rough, hard tackle on ODB and body slammed him. It was within the first few plays of the game. Then Norman proceeded to forget about it and just play football. You can't suspend a player for one extra hard tackle. One hard tackle, even if it was a little over the top, shouldn't have caused ODB to go completely off the rails like he did. ODB had plenty of chances to cool down, and didn't. He obviously didn't want to. He kept going after Norman, going out of his way and taking cheap shot after cheap shot. It one would have been one thing if Norman was covering ODB on every play, but he wasn't. On most plays, Norman was covering someone else, and ODB still went after him. It seemed like it happened every 5 plays or so. Finally, Norman had enough and started getting chippy back. ODB was the problem, not Norman. If I had been the head of the officiating crew, I would have gone over to Coughling and told him to take ODB out of the game and get him under control, or that I was going to eject both of them. In his interview following the game, Coughlin admitted that ODB was out of control. He continued to say that while he didn't condone that behavior, that ODB brings a lot of energy and passion to the team, and they wanted to win that game. He basically admitted that when push comes to shove, what's right doesn't matter, only winning the game. Making the playoffs or perhaps saving his job was more important than the integrity of the game, or preventing a player on another team from getting injured by thugish behavior of one of his own players. I think Coughlin should be fined and warned that if it happens again, HE will be suspended and not for just one game. IMO the NFL needs to send a clear message to every team that that kind of behavior will NOT be tolerated in the future. It needs to change the rules so that like in college football if a player receives two unsportsmanlike conduct penalties in a game, he is automatically ejected from that game and taking it a step further, is suspended for the entire following game as well and not just the first half of the next game. In addition, both the player and HC will be fined $50,000. That will get their attention.
Holy shit the spin being out in this by that senile old Coughlin is mind boggling. 2 days later someone gave him some talking points about the "bat" and attempts to intimidate OBJ in the pre game and veiled references to the homophobic slur and he's basically excusing what OBJ did while half heartedly saying Beckham was wrong. He's basically covering his OWN ass at this point. Geebus. _
I don't know if you're being condescending, but I had the game on. I wasn't watching it intently because I only care about the Giants when they're playing the Pats. I hear what you're saying, and I'd be okay with the body slam if it was a natural part of the action - but - it came on a running play. They were nowhere near the ball. There was no justification for Norman to make a tackle, let alone a body slam. It had no legitimate purpose in relation to the play. It was clearly done to make a statement, which to me means: to instigate. After Norman does the body slam, I don't see how he can just walk away like nothing happened, and say "Now let's just play football." Beckham was absolutely wrong in losing control, but using your logic, when Beckham retaliated, then Norman should have just walked away. If Norman had walked away after Beckham retaliated, then it probably would have been over, and it would have all been on Beckham. But he didn't. Norman continued to get more shots in too. Once blows are exchanged, then I don't see how it serves any purpose to say that one is more at fault than the other. They both could have stopped it, and neither one did. That makes them both wrong. At that point, does the degree really matter? Just punish them both in the same way, and to the same extent. That way everyone will think twice before they start, or continue, something like this. I agree with what you said about the officials. There were two standing right there. I don't know if they said anything to the players, but the officials needed to keep the game under control, and they didn't didn't. The coaches didn't either. You'd think that Coughlin would have sat Beckham for a little while, if for no other reason than to avoid the possibility of the refs tossing him for good.
No, I definitely was not being condescending. I couldn't tell if you had watched the game by your initial post, and that can make a huge difference in one's perspective about what ODB did. I did watch the game intently because I'm a huge Panther fan. I think you're wrong about what Norman did following that. Calling it a slam is laughable. He was holding him, then just let him fall to the ground or pushed him. He he didn't sling or "slam" him to the ground as ODB did soon thereafter. It wasn't an attempt to hurt ODB, just to get his attention and show him that he was going to be in for a long, tough day. Norman was definitely the instigator. If anything, Norman should have received a warning or at worst, 15-yard personal foul or unsportsmanlike conduct penalty for grabbing ODB. Regardless, after that, Norman did walk away and did stop for a long time until he got fed up with ODB's continual cheap shots at him. As the announcers said, on most of the snaps, Norman wasn't even covering ODB, and ODB went out of his way to go after Norman on the field. It was in the 4th quarter when Norman had had enough, and started fighting back because ODB continued his assault and the refs were doing nothing. Earlier, Norman got upset a time or two over ODB's continual cheap shots, but his teammates helped calm him down and he did nothing. ODB ignored both his teammates and his position coach's continued attempts throughout the game to get him to let it go and cool down. Coughlin did nothing. IMO that's damning. Coughlin is supposed to be such a strict disciplinarian, and yet he never even talked to ODB unless it was in the locker room during half time. He should have pulled him from the game early on, got in his face, told him that if he didn't calm down, he would sit on the bench the rest of the game, and then let him sit for a series or two to let that sink in. Players are going to do things like Norman did to throw their opponents off, to gain a psychological edge. It's part of the game. Usually, when something like that happens, the offended player doesn't respond, and he resolves to have a great game and make the other team/player pay, and then does. Norman wouldn't have responded at all if the ODB, the Refs and Coughlin had done what they should have done. The writer of that blog or article is full of shit. He's obviously a Giants homer. It was ODB on that retaliatory play that slammed Norman down then took a swing at him.
Yeah, like your intolerant generation comparing something negative to being gay. Do you blame our generation for all the problems in society today?
I'm having a difficult time with anyone comparing what Norman did to what OBJ, especially to excuse Beckham's behavior. Because Norman may have "instigated" it (which I don't believe) is irrelevant. Beckham was out of control almost the entire game, play after play, on the sideline, at the line of scrimmage, culminating in a premeditated assault on Norman. I'm sorry, this is coldcocking someone because they bumped into you. _
Okay. I watched the GIF over and over again, and it looks like a slam to me. After they run down the field with some hand fighting, Norman picks Beckham up, Beckham throws out his hands as if to appeal to the official, and Norman then tosses him to the ground. Then straddles Beckham, to assert his dominance, and to be the tough guy that he is. They were away from the ball, and nothing Norman did had anything to do with the play. I've seen flags thrown for a lot less. We can agree in part, and disagree in part, but as I said before, I'm from the school of thought that says everyone involved gets punished. Maybe it's from the Get Off My Lawn school of thought, but that's the way I'm looking at it.
I'm not comparing them. I'm saying that he needs to bear responsibility for what he did. I believe that Norman instigated it, and unless you're merely a contrarian, I don't see how instigating it is irrelevant.
Not contrarian at all. Beckham's repeated retaliation ultimately ending up with the missile shot was way way way over the top. Norman was fined $26k. That's fair, Beckham deserves the suspension. _
Fair enough. No one said that we had to even totally agree. I can see why you think he "tossed" him to the ground, but imo that's still different from a slam. A "slam" is a very strong, forceful action, and Norman did it much less. Whatever the case, it was away from the ball and was excessive, so as I said, I think he should have drawn an immediate 15-yard penalty for that. I agree that I have seen flags thrown for a whole lot less. If Norman had received the penalty and a warning there, who knows, maybe the rest would never have happened. Maybe the NFL needs to consider something like the penalty box in ice hockey, but alter it slightly so the 5- or 10-minute penalty has to be served while that player's unit is on the field, and time outs would not be considered a part of that time.
