The Vatican's UN Ambassador disagrees with you: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...-defrocked-rape-child-abuse-article-1.1781825 Your pope disagrees with you: http://www.phillyvoice.com/transcript-pope-francis-apology-church-victims/
What happened in Germany during WW2? What did the church do to help the Jews? Where was the righteous indignation then?
The Catholic church did exist in Nazi Germany I believe. I'm just asking that for all of the good they've done in the world, where was all this "good" during the holocaust?
This is a subject that has me troubled, but maybe for different reasons than for many other people. I was raised on the idea that the church did nothing, or worse, during the Holocaust. Then the RC Church began the beatification process for Pius XII (or whichever one) and I had a lot of issues with this. However, the record here is muddled. I'll give you a good corollary: how many have seen Schindler's List? Oskar Schindler ostensibly remained a member of the Nazi party thru the end of the war, but this allowed him to do far more good by keeping him closer to people who could help protect him and those that he sought to protect. I mention this because much the same has been mentioned about certain figures In the RC Church. If they had come out publicly against the Nazis they'd have put not only their own interests at harm but hurt any attempt to covertly save Jews. OTOH, the RC Church clearly helped save quite a few Nazis in Post WWII Europe. For me this is a classic case where truth is likely far more grey than black and white. However, that sort of truth is always inconvenient and it doesn't fit into our molded forums of thinking where we look for things that are good and bad. The problem is that many institutions have both good a bad aspects. I'll give another example. Recently I was watching the show The Tudors with my wife and they did a nice job showing the two-sided conflict between the Protestant Reformers and the Catholics in England. For the Protestants, the Catholic Church was riddled with outmoded and backwards thinking. It was this sort of thinking, they argued, that the RC Church had used to amass wealth and create superstition. So the Protestants seized the Catholic lands and crippled the Church. Now some of these critiques were true. OTOH, even though the Church had amassed a lot of land, quite a bit of that land had been put aside for welfare purposes! In other words, when peasants were put out by their landlords the church often intervened by giving parishioners something to farm so they could support themselves and, with luck, rebuild their finances a little. But the church could only support this massive welfare undertaking by accumulating the land necessary to do this! So on the one hand the church had accumulated wealth, but quite a bit of this wealth was untaxed land that was used by peasants as a system of early welfare. So when "reformers" seized church properties on the basis of taking back all of the wealth accrued by the church they also took away the welfare system for the poor! Nothing was put in its place..... Another classic example of how a supposedly backwards religious organization was actually doing quite a lot of good, but because there were (genuine mind you) issues of corruption the entire system was scrapped, the good with the bad. Anyway, I've digressed...... at some point I will get some time to read more on the church during the Second World War. I wish I had a more useful answer, but I'm not certain any honest historian does. EDIT: so far as I recall the RC Church was never disassembled in any area rules by the Nazis. To be fair, this was a genuine concern of the the RCC. The French Revolutionaries had done this, as had the Protestants, the Communists, and other examples. The loss of people, places, property, etc. has always concerned the Church going all the way back to the fall of the Western Roman Empire I suspect.
Cman, it's obvious at this point that you haven't read even a third of this thread, or you would understand the belief that the OP is a complete troll that signed up here to anger people. What you are talking about was discussed at least twice and with great detail. You really need to read it. It will open your eyes to why people are reporting that guy.
Actually... a lot... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Pius_XII_and_the_Holocaust But don't mind me, this is the feed the troll and bash Catholicism thread.
Byz, at 2112 posts, even reading a third of this would amount to 700 posts so you're right, I didn't go thru the entire thread. I just don't have much use for organized religion being an ex-catholic.
Jus sayin'. You missed all of the fun parts like him claiming every one of the hundreds of reports of Catholic priest molestation were completely fabricated by the press even when they included direct quotes from law enforcement. He said multiple times that there was not a single confirmed case of molestation, no priest was ever convicted (as false as it gets). And then there were the claims that photos of bishops being hosted by the Nazis were obviously photoshopped. Epic troll job in this thread. But I share your feelings on organized religion.
Apparently, if you post the truth about the thousands of DOCUMENTED sexual abuse cases against priests, you can get banned by the dude trolling this thread. _
Rescue of Jews by Catholics during the Holocaust "The Roman Catholic Church - through lobbying of Axis officials, provision of false documents, and hiding of people in monasteries, convents, schools, among families and the institutions of the Vatican itself - saved hundreds of thousands of Jews from being murdered by the Nazis during the Holocaust. The Catholic Church itself faced persecution in Hitler's Germany, and institutional German Catholic resistance to Nazism was largely concerned with defending the Church's own rights and institutions. Broader resistance tended to be fragmented and led by individual effort in Germany - but in every country under German occupation, priests played a major part in rescuing Jews. Aiding Jews met with severe penalty and many rescuers and would-be rescuers were killed - as with St Maximillian Kolbe,Giuseppe Girotti and Bernard Lichtenberg who were sent to theConcentration Camps. In the prelude to the Holocaust, Popes Pius XI and Pius XII preached against racism and war in encyclicals such as Mit brennender Sorge (1937) and Summi Pontificatus (1939). Pius XI condemned Kristallnacht and rejected the Nazi claim of racial superiority, saying instead there was only "a single human race". His successor Pius XII employed diplomacy to aid the Jews, and directed his Church to provide discreet aid. While the overall caution of his approach has been criticised by some, his 1942 Christmas radio address denounced the murder of "hundreds of thousands" of innocent people on the basis of "nationality or race" and he intervened to attempt to block Nazi deportations of Jews in various countries. When the Nazis came for Italy's Jews, some 4715 of the 5715 Jews of Rome found shelter in 150 Church institutions - 477 in the Vatican itself and he opened hisCastel Gandolfo residence, which took in thousands." In Italy, the popes lobbied Mussolini against anti-Semitic policies, while Vatican diplomats - among them Giuseppe Burzio in Slovakia,Fillipo Bernardini in Switzerland and Angelo Roncalli in Turkey rescued thousands. The nuncio to Budapest, Angelo Rotta, and Bucharest,Andrea Cassulo, have been recognised by Yad Vashem. The Church played an important role in the defence of Jews in Belgium, France, and the Netherlands, encouraged by the protests of leaders such as Cardinal Jozef-Ernest van Roey, Archbishop Jules-Géraud Saliège, and Johannes de Jong. From his Vatican office, Monsignor Hugh O'Flaherty, operated an escape operation for Jews and Allied escapees. Priests and nuns of orders like the Jesuits, Franciscans and Benedictines hid children in monasteries, convents and schools.[2]Margit Slachta's Hungarian Social Service Sisterhood saved thousands. In Poland, the unique Zegota organisation also rescued thousands and Mother Matylda Getter's Franciscan Sisters sheltered hundreds of Jewish children who escaped the Warsaw Ghetto. In France, Belgium, and Italy, Catholic underground networks were particularly active and saved thousands of Jews - particularly in northern Italy where groups like the Assisi Network were active, and in southern France.[3]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rescue_of_Jews_by_Catholics_during_the_Holocaust
Gentlemen, and i use that term awfully loosely haa haa, i thought it was stokes but he said it was not him, so it very well could of been Ralebird or Waterboy, i dont have time to sift through this monstrosity of slop, but i do need some help. one of you cats put up a list of atocities in the name of the catholic church, not priest raping links but murders , wars, movements etc, what page is that on? inquisition type stuff. help!! i need to shut someone up on facebook!! people are under the guise that only islam has been a bad religoon of history haaa haaa thanks in advance, there were some great informative links whomever listed them
