you don't get long term stability without a solid QB.. and really you only get a few years to find that QB before everything gets rebooted, regardless of who is coaching.
I don't think that's true. If the team is competitive in their division and makes the play-offs consistently, a coach could hang around a long while. Shula, Reid... If the team is really bad, yeah. Rex got 6 years, 4 really bad ones.
Shula had Griese and Marino...... Reid had McNabb (say what you want about him, but he's WAAAY better than any longterm answer the JETS have had in well decades)
I disagree and don't think that's true at all. It isn't the coach's responsibility to find a QB. That's on the GM. If a HC has his team prepared, playing smart, tough football, is disciplined and not beating itself, and is in the playoff hunt every year, he won't get fired unless the GM and owner are morons. You can't expect or ask any more of a HC than the above. It's not his fault if the GM can't find him a QB. If he has the team winning in spite of no franchise QB, he's not gonna get fired. Stability has much more to do with the entire team and not just the QB position. One of the reasons the Jets have been so bad over the years is that regimes have continually changed, and with that offensive or defensive systems, which usually meant that some of the better talent already on the team didn't fit the new system, so the team was continually starting over from scratch. Stability comes from having a calm, steady hand, from maintaining the same systems, from consistency, from competency of the HC and not just having a franchise QB.
it is the GM's job to find a QB i agree. but regardless, teams aren't consistently winning without one, and coaches get fired all the time as a result. i want the stability in the organization as well, but don't think they'll find it until they find at least a solid QB.
name me some teams who are routinely competitive in their divisions, but don't have a QB.. Shula had Marino, Reid had McNabb..
The only teams that I can think of that were good without a good QB are both in the same division in the same time period, that being the Steelers and the Ravens from 1997 to 2003 0r so. Both teams basically had 2 year QB's through that entire timeframe and were constantly looking for a better option. Both teams had a great defense. Both had real off-seasons at some point or another during the period. They both benefited from being in the same division as the Bengals and Browns. They both benefited from the fact that the other team couldn't find a QB either. Then the Steelers found Roethlisberger and pulled ahead and it took the Ravens a few years to find Flacco and catch up. The AFC East is a completely different place if Tom Brady hasn't been in the division for 15 years now. That's why the Jets have been able to put together some really good defenses and still have had trouble competing over time. It's why the Fins have been able to put together some good defenses but are now on a 12 for 13 string of missing the playoffs. It's why the Bills have been able to put together some good defenses but are 0 for the 00's in terms of making the playoffs.
yeah the Ravens and Steelers of that time period are a good example. you also illustrated the situation and circumstance pretty well. what i am encouraged about with this regime: 1) we got a legit GM with an extensive scouting background. with that came an overhaul of our scouting approach and scouting dept, with more emphasis and resources being put towards it. for the first time, we are a scouting team, and hopefully that can lead to better decisions made at obtaining QB's. picking up a smart vet like Fitz, and taking a shot on the upside of Petty, was a good start at stabilizing the position even if only in the short term. it should also lead to better drafting in general, which is the lifeblood of salary cap era NFL. 2) we hired another defensive minded HC, rather than flipping our identity on it's head. we will remain focused on defense and the trenches, which is our best chance of winning in cold weather northeastern fooball, much the way the Ravens and Steelers went about things until they could find a long term QB answer. overall, i am very encouraged with the approach. I'm just suggesting we've had similar optimism dissipate quickly on the back of bad QB play in the past. that is the critical ingredient to long term stability.
This wasn't really the direction I was headed, poor examples on my part. What I meant was, Bowles (like Rex) could hang around more than a couple years without a "great" QB. If he can get good football out of his other position players, any QB (almost) could fill in for a year or two while the search continues for a long term guy. Maybe Fitz for two, another FA vet for a couple. My main point was, if Bowles stings togeather 10-6 seasons and makes the play-offs every year or most every year with fill in QB's, I don't think he would be run outta town. Like Pitt and Balt as Brad pointed out above.
The thing that I find really encouraging is that the Steelers got Roethlisberger on the 11 and the Ravens came out of nowhere to take Flacco on the 18. That suggests that a team that is looking sharp doesn't have to be picking at the top of the draft to get their guy. They just have to identify exactly what they are looking for and then spend a lot of time and resources doing that.
Andy Dalton catches a lot of grief but he threw 99 TD passes in his first 4 seasons and only a few guys in history have done better than that. I get why people see him as just a decent QB but he's got openers on a great career if he takes off from his current plateau. Not that this is the year but he's got 5 TD's and 0 Int's through 2 games and he hasn't been sacked yet.
we both know Marvin would have been run out of this town LOOOOOOOONG ago. he went years without making the playoffs, and still hasn't won in them. and say what u will about Dalton, but the team has become more consistently competitive since his arrival.
both small school prospects too, which made them risky in a way. but like you said, when you know what you are looking for........... good teams build up their teams and learn how to win while searching for a QB. it makes the transition for that QB all the more stable. tanking while stripping a team down to nothing is not the right approach imo... amazes me how many fans push for that..
This is the direction I thought Rex and Tanny were going to take us. A promising QB with a good deal of talent around him, a larger than life coach who could win games with great game planning and a GM willing to spend money. It was great football for a couple of years. Things fell apart when Mark didn't develope enough to be sucessful without all the talent, the coach had no plan B when his scemes were figured out and the moeny ran out. I don't blame any one of them, but collectively it was a disaster.
i don't think it was a disaster until last year really, when the organization reached disarray and the product on the field reflected that. but the approach Rex and Tanny had was the correct one imo. the approach wasn't the problem, but finding that QB proved very elusive for them. it was a lot of fun for a while, but eventually the cap catches up, and the talent around the QB erodes. that's where you need to have a decent QB option in place, who can then step up. never happened. instead we actually traded for Tebow, while extending Sanchez. ouch. so i'm happy to try that similar approach again. i don't agree with you that you can plug and play any QB, and hope to get 10 wins. even decent game managers are hard to find. eventually the supporting cast here will erode too, short of Mac being an amazing drafter (lets hope!). drafting a decent QB is actually a lot easier than hitting on enough picks to keep competitive for years without one tho..
And it helps if you don't get 12 man on the field penalties, or have to call timeouts because there are only 10 defenders out there. That you do not waste challenges stupidly or squander your timeouts due to indecision. That you do not constantly get burned on 3rd and very long because you are blitz crazy. Rex knew D. He knew pretty much nothing else. And this kind of carelessness helped get him canned. If Bowles keeps a lid on this kind of stuff, then 10-6 will do. Because one of those 10-6's might lead to the Big Showdown
Steelers with kordell/cowher John fox/panthers/ don't even know the qb's he had lol Only ones I can think of the top of my dome. It's about winning, if a coach isn't winning then he's going to get fired. And winning most of the time is because of who's at qb.
