Religion - a respectful discussion, for those interested

Jesus died so that the sins we have committed in the past, as well as the sins we will commit in the future, will not define and condemn us. So he actually freed us from the guilt associated with sin. Prior to that, the Jewish people (and others) thought they could not be forgiven if they turned away from God and sinned. Or they had to slaughter a calf or something on the day of atonement (forgive my ignorance of Judaism; if there is a practicing Jew here please correct me!). But in general, under Judaism, there is no easy way to be forgiven and to start over. Then Jesus came, and taught us that love can overcome sin, if we are truly sorry, and in forgiving sins he instituted the Sacrament of Reconciliation (becoming reconciled with the Church, which includes the community of people that make up the Church). We are reconciled with each other; most sins hurt other people as well as ourselves, or alienate us from the Spirit of brotherhood that should unite us.

Jesus died for our sins, but we are supposed to do our best to avoid sin. And the key here is the fact that sin hurts us, and others, in a very real way in this life, not just as a stumbling block to making it to heaven. When we avoid sin, we are happier, more joyful and more at peace in the here and now, in this life. So Jesus, and His Church, wants the best for us, the most happiness and joy for us, to allow us to become the best version of ourselves, and so He gave us this tremendous gift of the Sacrament of Reconciliation (also called Penance, or Confession). Along with the Eucharist, and the other Sacraments. The Eucharist, btw, feeds us with God's joyful Spirit on a weekly basis (or daily, for those who can attend daily mass). Such a blessing, and a gift, and I am so thankful for it!

 

What I said was that science proves the necessity of a Supreme Being, a Creator. Some call this Being "God", others "Allah", others "Yahweh", others the essence of being itself (the Deists), and others a "Creation Field" that lies outside of the Universe. Whatever you call it, science today understands that the Universe could not have created itself. That makes no sense, and defies the most basic Laws of Science. Therefore, something in a dimension that science cannot detect (and string theory, in physics, postulates the existence of other dimensions that we can't detect), must be responsible for the emergence of the Universe, and all of the mind-boggling order and complexity within it. To say it all came about randomly, out of nothing, is ludicrous. Most scientists understand this.

But you will ignore this and keep twisting my words, like you always do.

 

Thankfully, I have disciplined myself to avoid the harmful poisonous dreck that is porn...for the most part, although this twisted culture keeps shoveling that filth in my face even while I try to avoid it....but I am so much happier, and I feel so much more alive and "at the top of my game", so to speak, since I have broken free from that crippling addiction! The more I avoid porn, and sin in general, the more I am free to be the best version of myself.

 

Sorry, my bad. I did read your post, and I did intend to reply, but then I got distracted by some other posts that were more focused on one particular point. Yours was so broad that I wasn't sure where to start. But I will attempt to tackle it now....

I will address your points one by one:

1) Sure, science is repeatable, and you could do the experiments yourself to confirm what is claimed....but do you? It's well-known that there is a lot of "junk science" out there, especially in articles in the mainstream media (I'm excluding scientific journals here). There are special interest groups, and lobbyists, who pay big money to persuade these sources to fudge the numbers to create a result that fits their agenda. If you don't realize this, then you are naive. How many people actually check these supposed findings, and confirm them with their own research? And not having done this, they are just repeating what their "elders" in the scientific community have told them. While at the same time, not believing what thousands of eye-witnesses reported in terms of the numerous miracles that Jesus performed, just because they happened a long time ago. Or the countless reports of near-death experiences, including the recent one from a neurologist who said that he was in a state where his experiences could not have come from his brain. Or the countless other miracles cited by people. But they will believe some article in a newspaper or magazine funded by lobbyist money?!

2) You say "what discovery?", "Show me!" when it comes to revelations in religion, but I could say the same thing in response to "scientific" reports on what I should eat, which keep changing all the time btw, these articles contradict each other, they keep flip-flopping on what is nutritious and what is not, for example....swaying to the fickle winds of popular opinion and the special interest groups/lobbyists and their deep pockets...

3) and 4) You are not just "taking my word for it" ... what I post here is not some made up schlock to push my own personal agenda, it has been supported by generations of wise "elders" (as Stokes would say), including academics, theologians, eye-witness accounts, etc. The basic truths of the Catholic Church, that is the doctrine that applies to God and His greatest revelation of Himself, Jesus Christ, has not changed since the time of Christ Himself. (at least in the Catholic Church). Science keeps changing and contradicting itself with each new discovery, but the Catholic Church teaches basic truths that do not change, and each new revelation confirms these truths. Much more reliable than science, if you look at it fairly and objectively. Jesus Christ proved Himself to be the Son of God, and had thousands of eye-witnesses attest to this fact, while science depends on fallible human beings doing the best they can to make sense of the world around them, using their limited brains. Science is a good thing, don't get me wrong, but scientists are wrong about as much as they are right. I'll put more faith in Church teachings that have been proven effective for trillions of people for thousands of years.

BTW, do you really think that there is nothing in existence that our limited human brains can detect? Talk about a narcissistic, inflated view of humanity! People who believe in only the physical universe that we can detect with our brains are saying that there is nothing that our 5 senses cannot detect....I find that highly unlikely, to say the least.

5) The Catholic Church was overstepping its bounds when it said those things about science. Today the Church understands that its job is not to contribute to the field of science, but to teach those realities that lie outside of the physical universe that science can detect.

"The fact is, science and religion ARE incompatible, in any subject matter where they might overlap." That's the one thing you said that is in fact correct. Science and Religion are 2 entirely different "fields", so there is no overlap, or there should not be anyway. Science deals with the detectable physical universe that can be experimented on with man-made equipment, while Religion deals with experiences, revelations, and other phenomena that occur in the Spiritual realm (which few doubt exists, even those who do not follow organized religion). Of course, in God's greatest revelation, He came in the flesh in the person of Jesus Christ, and proved His divinity with numerous miracles, witnessed by thousands of people. These historical events were passed on through oral tradition, word of mouth, before they could be written down in the Bible, a collaboration by many of the most educated of that time (those that could read and write). It was a different era that obviously did not have laptops or smart phones (ironically used by many not so smart people!). In those days, people were more careful, deliberate, methodical, and wise; they didn't have machines to do their "thinking" for them.

 

They're not. The vast majority of them are content, joyful people at peace with themselves and understand the true meaning of God's gift of sexuality. Whatever they don't get from playing with themselves, and using women to help them masturbate, they get from the Holy Spirit and the integrity that comes with following Christ's teachings.

But they are an easy target for a world that wants to pretend that we can use our sexuality any way we want, following our lusts like slaves of the flesh, without any consequences. So the media took the few cases of "Priests" who never had a true calling and blew the whole thing way out of proportion. A classic propaganda campaign, which apparently some people in this thread are too naive to recognize, or don't want to recognize it because it might make their perverted lifestyles stand out for what they really are...

You should read Blessed Pope John Paul II, the Great's brilliant work, "Theology of the Body".


All of these questions, and many more, are answered in the 129 Wednesday audiences popularly known as the “Theology of the Body,” delivered by St. John Paul II between 1979 and 1984. His reflections are based on Scripture and contain a vision of the human person truly worthy of man. Emphasizing the theme of love as self-gift, they counteract societal trends which view the body as an object of pleasure or as a machine for manipulation. Instead, the body shows us the call and gives us the means to love in the image of God. His earlier book Love and Responsibility, and other papal documents, such as Familiaris Consortio and Mulieris Dignitatem also touch on these and related themes. John Paul II encourages a true reverence for the gift of our sexuality and challenges us to live it in a way worthy of our great dignity as human persons. His theology is not only for young adults or married couples, but for all ages and vocations, since it sums up the true meaning of being a person.
http://www.theologyofthebody.net/



Theology of the Body Institute
EDUCATING MINDS.
TRANSFORMING HEARTS.
CHANGING LIVES.
http://www.tobinstitute.org/

 

LOL...no, what I meant is that whatever "fun" priests might be missing out on by not playing with themselves like some horny zit-faced teen, shamefully behind closed doors, or by not porking different women or fornicating with them, he more than makes up for those passing physical pleasures by the sense of peace, happiness, and profound, lasting joy that comes from living the faith. That's the kind of lasting satisfaction with one's life, and lasting inner peace and joy, that will never come from lots of masturbating or sex. Now sex with one's spouse as a loving act of marriage, that's a different story, because that powerfully incorporates the Spiritual along with the physical. By unifying true, spiritual love with physical love, a marriage bond is formed and a lasting joy produced (even if there's bickering over what belongs on the second shelf of the fridge). Not to mention a loving family that is a supportive, nurturing environment for children.

 

Says the tabloids, with absolutely no proof whatsoever. And you can count the number of actual convictions on one hand. But I'm not going to get sucked into this pissing match again. And the Pope's attempt to placate the church-haters with a political statement is hardly proof of anything. Nobody, not even the Pope, knows how many of those cases were legit.

Listen, the church dealt with a scandal in the past, and has moved past it. You and a couple others in this thread are the only ones who still think this is an issue. I mean, why don't we talk about the problem of slavery in the U.S. while we're at it! (which, btw, a muslim I met recently still thinks is going on in this country.) He says there is still slavery in the U.S. ..... do you believe that also?

 

A good example of the historical evolution of religion, from the renowned Catholic Biblical scholar Scott Hahn:

"Long before Jesus arrived, God had called Israel to be a "holy nation" (Exodus 19:6) when he freed them from slavery. But the Israelites forfeited that status almost immediately by their idolatrous worship of the golden calf (Exodus 32: 1-6). So God gave them a detailed code of Law to serve as a remedy, a discipline, and a means of restoring their dignity. Still, they fell repeatedly into idolatry and immorality. On their own they could not live according to this Law. It was designed to help them, but it didn't work. Their need for God became painfully apparent. Merely human powers, and merely human nature, and merely human life were not enough to make anyone on earth lead a holy life. God didn't wait for us to achieve His life on our own power. He came instead to share our life. The Word became flesh in Jesus Christ.

In the Eucharist, we become partakers of the divine nature. It heals our wounded human nature from within, little by little, over time, making us more alive, more authentically human, more free, and more joyful as God intended. We share in God's divine nature because he has condescended to share in our human nature. We become rich not in a worldly sense, but because God has given us all His riches: His life, a share in His nature, His holiness. This is not a metaphor, it is the reality of salvation. We have been saved from our sins, and also saved for sonship. Christ is the "firstborn" of God the Father (Hebrews 1:6), but in Him the Church has become sons of God as well. If we can achieve holiness, it is because we have become members of the divine household, the divine family. We share the life of the Blessed Trinity, which is Heaven, given to us even now. Little by little, we begin to experience a glimpse of Heaven (or a foretaste) while still on earth.

The third person of the Blessed Trinity, the Holy Spirit, comes to dwell in our hearts when we receive the Eucharist. God's love is poured into our hearts. The Holy Spirit is the great "Saint maker". It is by the Spirit we are reborn as saints. Our bodies are Temples of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 6:19), so we should respect our bodies as such. We come to share Christ's divinized humanity in the life of the Church, in the Sacraments He has entrusted to the Church." ~"Angels and Saints", Scott Hahn

 

That's why the devil's most recent attack on the Church has been such an effective one, sadly. Who knows how many more people might be enjoying and benefiting from the Catholic Church today if not for that scandal.

 

In Christianity, God formed an intimate relationship with His people when He came as one of us, to show us that He cares for us, and loves us personally, as a close family member. We acknowledge this when we become baptized into His family. Before that, Judaism saw God as a kind of distant judge of humanity, who made covenants (deals) with us, and we had to follow strict rules or be condemned. Just as science makes new discoveries that transform our lives, so too Jesus' arrival in human history taught us the proper way to view God and have a close, loving relationship with Him. God is now understood as our friend, and the commandments and moral teachings He gives us He does as a loving parent to help us grow in love and achieve peace, happiness, and joy. (Spiritually, so much greater than passing physical pleasures). Now the world can know such communion - with God! - through the Sacraments Christ has entrusted to the Church. These Sacraments are the ordinary way that human beings may become holy - the ordinary way mere mortals may share in eternal life.

Every person we encounter is a brother or sister of ours, in a very real way, since we all have the same Father (God). This naturally leads to peace, so the more people who come to realize these truths, the more peace and love there will be in the world. We are participants together. None of us lives merely alone with God. This is what makes the Catholic Church so important, and probably what attracts so many people to it.

[paraphrased from Scott Hahn, along with my reflections]