yeah it is, I agree with you I wasn't interjecting my opinions but rather my interpretations of bradways
Again I disagree. The Jets have a number of younger players who are core-type players. Do they have older vets who will most likely be gone by 2017? Undoubtedly, but that doesn't mean the roster will be in "tatters." That's absurd and a very negative, cynical way of seeing things. I think that Mac showed this off season that he has a good eye for talent. As some of those older players leave, good young players will replace them. Geno could have an Andy Dalton type year this year, and then with greater confidence, comfort with the system, and perhaps an improved OL and additional weapons in 2016, take another step forward and rise to the level of a top 10 or top 15 QB. I think some of you guys are too negative and pessimistic. Being Jets fans, that's certainly understandable and I've been there before, but I think we truly have reasons to be at least hopeful, if not optimistic with Mac, Bowles and this CS. Geno may not prove to be the guy at QB, but if he improves enough to be a solid backup, that will be something we haven't had in a good while, and there's hope for Petty, or at least should be. I understand some of you saying to those who are more optimistic about TC reports, to wait until the games begin and see how those players play. That's fair, but by the same token, those of us who are more optimistic can say the same thing to you. Instead of saying that Geno sucks and won't improve or that he has to make a miraculous, unrealistic leap this year or he won't be good enough for the Jets, why not wait until the games start and see how he plays and how well the team does. When you have a young, rebuilding team, that's the time to play a young QB and let him take his lumps. That's not the time to play an older vet who isn't the answer. Some of you guys think too much like fans and just want wins and excitement every year, but that's not the way a GM should think. GMs sometimes have to sacrifice a few wins in a given season in order to develop talented players for the future, or at least give those players an opportunity to develop. The long and the short term good of the team has to be balanced. A team shouldn't go all in every year. That would keep them perpetually mediocre. Sometimes teams have to take a step backwards in order to make two forward the following year.
Oh. that was not my last sentence. But anyway, the answer is it's a combination of both their pasts and their performances so far. I read a rather detailed analysis of both Qb's performances in the Star Ledger, yesterday. They listed the number of passes where defenders dropped catchable passes. They also listed Fitz as having a higher completion percentage, but that both have not been impressive. The talk you hear that's positive for Fitz is that he does not seem to be hampered by his leg. For Smith it's mostly about his demeanor. Yeah, that's a good sign all other things being equal. But it's not enough to give an indication that he somehow did something this off season that was going to lead to him being much improved in camp. We'd have already seen that by now. We haven't. Of course Smith inteds to improve as camp and pre-season go on. Meh. so does everyone else. My point is if we were going to see a quantum leap for him before Opening Day, we would have already seen evidence of that by now. We haven't. Meanwhile Fitz is not doing enough to take the job away from Smith if the CS is bound and determined to give Smith the job. This is not good.
I am not sure this is coming from Woody, or whether Mac agrees and is all in on it. But I don't see how you look at the way this roster is structured right now and call this a rebuilding team. Rebuilding teams do not get a player like Marshall when they're already paying big money to Decker. They don't re-sign a player like Harris for big money. And they sure as hell do not sign players like Revis and Cromartie in FA. Then go on to supplement them with Skrines. They don't even I think keep players like Pace and Babin on the roster. Then there are other moves that while not clearly NOT a move a rebuilding team would make, I would argue they are more like a win now team would make, like signing Carpenter rather than seeing if someone else on the roster can play their way into being better. And of course there's Smith as well. Hoping for significant improvement from a 3rd year Qb who has shown next to nothing so far is more like a triumph of hope over experience than it is about having a clear rebuilding plan. Here I give them someting of a pass, but only up to a point, because there were limited options in FA and the draft. I just have a hard time putting Smith and building anything good in the same thought.
The Jets have 7 players I'd count as young core players at this point. Wilkerson, Richardson, Harrison, Williams, Pryor, Davis and maybe Amaro. The rest of the youth on the roster all come attached to big question marks at this point. Carpenter might be a core player but he certainly hasn't looked like one with the Seahawks. 2017 is likely to be a nightmare roster, particularly if 2 of the DL are gone, which is looking like a real possibility.
These two statements show that neither one of you have been paying attention to the reports coming out of training camp this year. Nobody is saying Geno is definitely going to be great, but he has shown a lot of improvement and at this point in time, that warrants optimism. Especially with the upgraded supporting cast that is surrounding him. Everyone likes to mention these top 10 QBs, but you fail to realize that those top 10 QBs usually have good WRs to throw to and a good OL protecting them. Geno hasn't had that since he's been in the NFL and I still doubt he has the OL. The point still remains that there are soooo many more reasons to be optimistic that he has improved compared to reasons to be pessimistic it isn't funny. Yet, some still think Fitz should be starting even though all the reports out of camp say that Geno is clearly playing better. The same thing happened last year with Vick. People wanted Vick to be the starter even though Geno was playing better than him in camp. Even when Vick did get to start last season, he didn't do any better than Geno did. Why? Because he had nobody to throw to and nobody blocking for him. There are plenty of good reasons to be optimistic about the way this team is going. But, if you want to choose to ignore them and continue to be a debbie downer, go ahead.
the only thing I can say is that I'm assuming you haven't been a Jets fan for long judging by your screen name. that's okay- I'm just saying..... This isn't the first time we've gotten positive reports of our QB in training camp only to see him shit his pants when the real games start. This isn't even the 10th or 11th time this has happened over the years. Start with 20 times maybe more.. so I'm not gonna blame bradway or blocker for not drinking the cool aid here or having the "show me" attitude. We've all been burned SO MANY times over the years. And Smith is an even LONGER shot at success than some of the others we've been burned on. just something to think about when Jets fans don't share your optimism
Yeah, but pessimism is helpful how? "Pressure is something you feel when you don't know what the hell you're doing." - Peyton Manning
And what would be those reasons? The optimistic spin the Jets are encouraging the media to present at this point? The fact that the Jets have already anointed Geno as the starter unless he's terrible? The fact that Geno had a good final quarter of the season just like he did in 2013? The fact that the Jets added a good target at WR, like they did last year? I hope it's so but I'm thinking we're just headed for a slight improvement over more of the same. That's why I'm bothered by the way things are going down at the beginning of camp. Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me.
How do you get that it looks to be a nightmare roster? You really do see things in a doom and gloom way. The cap will continue to rise. The way Mac designed the FA contracts this year, most of them can be released after this season with little or no cap hit. There's no way Brick will get that contract in 2017. He will have taken a pay cut, re-negotiated/restructured his contract, or he will be gone. Harris will probably be gone by then, as will Colon, Pace, Babin, and Cromartie, possibly Marshall, possibly Giacomini and a few others. In addition to the core players you mention, Geno could have proven to be either a quality starter, a serviceable starter, a quality/serviceable backup or be off the team. Petty could be the QB of the future and expectations could be high, depending upon how things go. Devin Smith, Lorenzo Mauldin and Chris Owusu could easily be considered core players by that point as could Amaro. Marcus Williams could be a core player, so could McDougle, Milliner, and Carpenter. Harrison, the OG they drafted in the 5th round this year, could be a core player and a fixture at RG. The Jets could have Brick's and or Giacomini's successor in place. They could have a fast RB who excels both in receiving and rushing. They'd still have Decker who should be considered a quality contributor if not a core player. If 2 of the DL are gone (Richardson and Mo), then it would be because Richardson didn't learn his lesson and screwed up again or got himself killed. That would hurt in any circumstance, regardless of what happened with the rest of the team. Mo will in all likelihood be signed. I have to think he changed his agents because they were obstructing a new deal getting signed in some manner. Even if they weren't, even if Mo is being a hard ass and they were ready to cave to the Jets, and the Jets wind up having to trade him, they will get a quality player or players or draft pick or picks in return, and I am confident that Mac would get quality talent in return. TJ Barnes and/or Deon Simon could develop into core players by that point. So could Qvale and a number of the other young UDFAs the Jets will probably wind up with on their PS. Why not let the future take care of itself? I see no reason to be so pessimistic about the future. If Rex and Idzik were still here, yes, I could clearly see that, but not with Mac and Bowles. Now if this year is a disaster, I could perhaps understand your thinking 2016 and 2017 would be disasters too, but why not wait and see how things play out this season? You're too knowledgeable a fan to get so worried about the future.
It's not a matter of it being "helpful." Having been where some of those guys are, I can TOTALLY understand where they are. As the old saying goes, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." The Jets over the years have certainly given anyone who has been a long-time fan, reason to be cynical and pessimistic, if not absolutely bonkers. Even the most determined optimist, can eventually give way to cynicism and doubt when they are continually disappointed and betrayed. I think that perhaps most of the fans on this board are from the NY Metroplex area. This is a gross generalization, but I think most people in that area of the country are more cynical and pessimistic. At least that is my perception and experience from having lived there for 16 years. I became that way too. Psychologists refer to it as the "rat complex" or something like that. You put two rats in a confined area, and they're fine. Put 4 rats in that same confined space, and they start getting antsy. Put 8 rats in that space and they start becoming aggressive. Put 12 rats in that space and they start eating each other. I think that contributes to that kind of negative perspective. It's not saying the people are bad, it's just the way things are with human nature. Climate conditions also have an impact on how we think and act. While I do think there are a lot of reasons to be hopeful and optimistic, that is more my basic nature, and I returned to living in the south, where in general, people are more positive and optimistic. I can understand why they are more guarded or "pessimistic." They probably want to be optimistic but their sense of self preservation won't allow that. I was the same way for several years, but eventually grew tired of that. I didn't like who I had become and following the Jets had ceased to be fun. I had to take a break from following the Jets, reading and posting on Jets boards for about a year, in order to find a more positive attitude again. The media doesn't help. During preseason they make everything so positive and rosy, then the season start, everything turns to shit, and they become totally negative. We then foolish for having dared to believe or hope for things to change or improve. We get mad at ourselves for allowing ourselves to be hopeful, and resolve not to let that happen again. We decide that it's better to be pleasantly surprised, then disappointed again. I get it. I think there is room for both sides and those in the middle. I think those on both sides of the issue should be more understanding of those who have the opposite opinion. We also need to be more patient with each other. Which ever side of the issue one comes down on, the opposite opinion can be annoying and frustrating, but we just have to disagree respectfully and civilly and wait and see what happens. ALL OF US want the team to get it right and win. We just have different ideas of how and when that will happen.
Thanks for the interesting and considered reply - I'm pretty much a refugee from Twitter looking for debates conducted in sentences of more than 140 characters, so this is all a breath of fresh air. There's probably a fair degree of truth in your theory of cities breeding pessimism, but I think the point remains that irrespective of the outlook on events that's adopted - be it optimistic or pessimistic - the outcome of the event itself won't be affected, so it's probably healthier and more sensible to look on the bright side. From afar (England), I've been a Jets fan since 1985, and trust me I've had reason to despair! But I've learned over the years that expecting the worst affects nothing except my own mood. So bringing it back to football, for the moment, I pretty much agree that Geno is a long, long way from being a serviceable NFL-calibre QB. But that's not to say I don't hope that he's capable of becoming one. If he falls short, then I'll hope that somehow we can get our hands on Hackenberg and that he turns out to be our franchise guy. If that doesn't happen, and we're stuck with a bad-to-mediocre Geno, I'll hope that he loses an arm in a boating accident so that we can start all over again. There's always room for optimism.
You're welcome. Always good to add another Jets fan and different perspective on things. Glad you decided to join us. I totally understand what you mean about the more than 140 characters per sentence thing. I've posted on Jets boards, where 90% of the responses and posts were one-liners. Anything a paragraph or longer was considered too long to read, which of course doesn't allow for any kind of in-depth, intelligent analysis or discussion. I've been a Jets fan since '64 or '64. We are happier when we choose to have a more positive outlook, but each person has to come to that on his or her own. Of course what we think doesn't have an impact upon reality, although I have seen some fans who thought that it did. I hope you were just kidding with the last bit about Geno losing his arm in a boating incident. That's a little harsh. I think he's gonna surprise a lot of people this year in a positive way, but even if he doesn't, he's only under contract for one more season after this one, I think, and even if not, his cap hit can't be very big so they could cut him or just keep him as a backup. There's no need to wish a horrific injury on him. I don't hate him. I grew to hate Rex, but I never wished anything horrible would happen to him, although I did ponder it a time or two.
I can live without Snacks, but I can't see this team w/out Mo - I just can't. Watch in 4 years, none will be on this roster
I thought that was probably the case. At least I was hoping so. Glad to know that you weren't serious. Yeah, until you get to know someone, or have the advantage of seeing their eyes, facial expression or body language, or hearing the inflection of their voice, we have no way of knowing. Unfortunately, there are guys out there that have wished players to get seriously hurt. I used to post with a guy on another Jets site that did that and he wanted to horsewhip Richie Anderson on the 50 yard line prior to the opening kickoff.
I understand where you are coming from. But you are ignoring that the FO might make some moves, probably will, that will add to that list before the 17 season begins.
Noticing that Smith has come into camp and not shown significant improvement is not pessimism. It is called realism, living in the fact based world, and not some fantasy that Smith is improving so much he will be a much better Qb this year. Now what do I mean by "much"? By significant? How about progressing to the point where he stops losing more games for the Jets than he wins for them?
