I like Qvale too. I'm actually pulling for Jarvis Harrison the most. I've heard great things about him, and although he was selected in the fifth round, nfl scouts say he is second-round talent. I heard he owned Sheldon yesterday in practice. The only issue is that he is still learning and is a rookie, so I doubt they hand him the job this year. However, I think Harrison would play best at the RG position. If not him, then I'm definitely rooting for Qvale.
We'll just have to agree to disagree. IMO it doesn't matter one whit thta he was one of the greatest offensive linemen in NFL history or how versatile he was. That doesn't win you a SB in an of itself. One can build a very good, if not dominant, OL without having a HOF OG. Having one skews one's salary structure, and takes money away from more important play-making positions. I can understand your thoughts on White, but the point stands that in all likelihood, at least based on what he has said, Mac would not have taken Scherff unless his philosophy of taking the BPA in round 1 outweighed his philosophy of not using a high draft pick on an interior OL.
C'mon man, you can't downplay the importance of Larry Allen to that team, you just can't. He had a very important role on that team - he wasn't a luxury. Emmit Smith doesn't become the player he is w/out Larry Allen. How many dominant offensive lines have shitty to average guard play? Tough to name a great line w/out a great guard IMO. I understand that you believe the G isn't important to warrant a top 10 pick, but sometimes there are times where it makes sense. In this particular scenario w/ the Jets - I don't see how you could be mad with Schreff as the selection.
I value guards more than you, but If I'm taking a guard in the top five he better be a sure fire stud, along the lines of Zach Martin or Joel Bitonio. Scherff s a nice player and he'll be a good starter, but I don't ever see him becoming an elite RT or guard in the NFL; I can't pass on a player , such as Kevin White, who has Julio Jones potential for an above average prospect. I honestly don't believe there was much of a gap between Scherff and Laken Tomlinson (prospect taken care in round three)
Qvale and Harrison hopefully have future roles as starters, and that could come as early as this season. they are guys i believe we need to hold on to. so we need a stop gap as insurance, which brings us to the point of this thread. do we need Mathis and his price tag to fill that role? I'm fine with taking the chance on Colon for one more season, with those above guys hopefully closing the ranks. OT is the bigger need and concern to me, and it will be the number 1 priority (possibly along with QB) heading into next season. save the money for that, for Mo, and maybe even Snacks.
Schreff will have a Zach Martin like impact on the Redskins. Scherff is stronger and more versatile than Tomlinson. This assessment you have of Schreff, I believe is absolutely incorrect here bud. BTW Tomlinson was taken in round 1, not round 3. Tomlinson also can only play G. Give me a Schreff (1st round) and Dorial Green-Beckham (2nd round) over Kevin White (1st round) and an AJ Cann who was drafted in the 2nd round.
Scherff's not going to be able to play LT in the NFL; he's going to be most successful at guard. I'm guessing the Redskins will start him off at RT and have him play guard eventually . If he's only going to be great at one position, I wouldn't call that versatile. He's agile and gets to the second level well and would be nice in a ZBS. He's strong, but he's a poor pass protector, hand placement skills are lacking, and he allows pass rushers to get into his chest at times. As I said he'll be good, but at the moment he's not going to be on Joel Bitonio's or Zach Martin's level as a rookie; his technique, pass protection , balance, and footwork , wasn't close to Zach Martin's coming out of Notre Dame. He's good, but definitely not elite, IMO (applies to many prospects at the top of this years draft); If I'm taking a guard in the top five, I want him to be a sure fire stud, who excels as a run blocker and a passer . I also didn't realize Tomlinson was taken in round one and I had Scherff ahead of him, but the gap between the two is not huge . I wouldn't have been upset with the pick, but I'm higher on White, so I would have gone there had Leonard Williams been taken before pick six.. And if I was a fan of DGB, I'd be fine with that pairing, but I'm not. Intriguing physical tools, but he's a headcase.
What does LT have to do with this discussion? We are talking about fixing the interior offensive line. Scherff is going to be an potential ALL-PRO at either G position and I think he's serviceable at RT. That makes him versatile because he is able to play some positions, and play them well. DJ Fluker from SD can play all 5 positions on the line, but he isn't great at all of the positions, does that make him not versatile? I don't think so. Schreff's Guard / tackle skill-sets should translate to any type of scheme. Man blocking, zone blocking - I think he's going to have an impact. Plus he's got some great coaching over in Washington. You haven't seen Schreff play so I suggest you wait and see him play, he's going to out-man almost anyone that comes towards him. He will def have a Zach Martin like impact. He's got technique, power, and some lateral quickness. Martin, is more athletic though. Both are going to be great guards for yrs to come and even further justifies taking a G in round 1 and potentially in the top 15 of picks. The gap between Schreff and Tomlinson is a pretty decent gap absolutely. Schreff more powerful, versatile; and he may have better lateral quickness. Tomlison I remember coming out, everyone talked about how slow his foot movements were. Schreff (1st round) and Dorial Green-Beckham >>>>>>>>>>>> Kevin White (1st round) and an AJ Cann .... if not for DGB's issues off the field, he would've been the 2nd WR taken no doubt and Kevin White would be 3rd or even 4th depending on preferences.
You brought up versatility. I don't believe he'll be successful at LT or RT; You believe he'll be good at RT, I don't. I want him to play guard in the NFL, where his poor pass protection technique will be shielded; yes he has potential to be an ALL Pro Guard, but he has too many questions in regards to pass protection for me to take him in the top five or to consider him a sure fire stud . I've seen Scherff play quite a bit and I mentioned his flaws and my opinion on him SEVERAL times before the draft and I stated very early in the process that I'd take Colins over him anyday of the week.. Everyone views/sees college prospects differently for the most part, so to say I haven't watched Scherff because I have an opinion that differs from yours is asinine. There's a reason why draft boards vary I watched him, formulated my opinion of him and several poeple agree with me when it comes to his flaws. . His technique in the passing him is poor... his posture can be a problem at times and he's vulnerable to counter moves and double moves. Scherff can absolutely play in any scheme, when did I say he couldn't? He's good drive blocker and a very quick agile offensive linemen who can get to the second level quickly. However, I've seen entirely too many instances where he's "out leveraged" in the pass portection or instances where he "turnee" his shoulder too early and allowed edge rushers to get in his chest and attack him inside.. Right Guards are often left on an island, so he HAS to improve his pass protection. Zach Martin NEVER had the techniqual flaws of Brandon Scherff. He's worthy if a top fifteen pick, but he's not a guy I'd take in the top five. And Scherff is actually a more athletic tackle or guard than Zach Martin was and is. He will have a positive impact, I just don't think he's going to be elite. I considered Laken Tolminsion to be a top fifteen prospect, so no the gap between he and Scherff in my eyes was not huge at all Second, DGB hasn't played in two years and he's a stiff WR. I would have had White and Cooper over him, even if he were. Kevin White only ran about for or five routes at WVU, but you saw him use subtle foot/head movements to deceive corners and create separation.. so while he wasn't polished you saw signs of a player who could eventually get it. DGB has great physical tools, but he was extremely overrated IMO and we can't ignore character concerns . In a few very years he very well could be better than White or Cooper, but as prospects I perfered Cooper and White. And you and I don't where he would have gone if he were not a headcase, so saying he would have been the second WR taken is silly.. Several posters here believed Jalen Strong was a first round talent (or better than White) and we saw what the NFL thought of him.
Playing or not playing LT has nothing to do with this prospect's versatility, it really has nothing to do with this discussion. I think he will be a average to above average RT. He's going to be a great G that's for sure - I think the Redskins are having him play RT. The only reason Schreff would be bad at LT is because he doesn't have the lateral quickness to go against speed rushers. That doesn't mean he sucks at pass protection. I had Collins as my #1 prospect in terms of the offensive line and you can ask anyone about that one. I had Schreff #2. Lake isn't better than Schreff IMO not even close. Lake has slow feet. Again, impact does not mean they are the same exact player or need to have the same skill-sets. You believe Schreff may not have the technique expertise of Zach Martin and that is fine, but that does not mean he cannot have a big time impact from day one with his own abilities. He may not be as polished as Zach, but he's still got plenty of talent and has technique to be developed, we also don't know how much he's improved since being with Bill Callahan. The Redskins are already expecting him to be a big part of their offense. Also, I've seen times where Brandon would have good recovery time from engaging / disengaging with his defender; In the NFL, when RG3 is rolling right, and you got Schreff right there as a defender - I might get my ass knocked to the ground quickly with Schreff. Depending on the circumstance, you can justify taking Schreff in the top 6. We are going to disagree on this completely. Not going to destroy your argument and call it crap, but I'm not agreeing with your assessments one bit. This also doesn't really hurt my argument in terms of drafting a G in the top 15 [in which you said you would as well]. So this is really about who you like more. DGB has 2x the potential of Kevin White. DGB has Randy Moss like potential. Like I said before, if he stayed on the field and didn't cause issues he would've been a top 2 receiver taken easily. BTW, it was me that said Jaelen Strong was a top 5 receiver and I had him ranked over Kevin White. Kevin White is the one that is indeed overrated.
Considering Mathis has been on the market this long and still isn't signed further bolsters the argument that Mac knows what the hell he is doing. Tannenbuam would have signed him in a blind heartbeat at over market value and Idzick wouldn't even have contacted Mathis's agent . . .
I wasn't taking about the Cowboys. I could care less who was important to them. I hate them more than any other team in the NFL. I was speaking in general terms. Read what I wrote. One doesn't need to have a HOF caliber OG to have a very good OL and very successful offense. Thus, a player of that caliber is a luxury, NOT a necessity. You're going to extremes. I didn't say anything about having shitty to average guard play. I could be mad with Scherff as the selection because one, that's too high for an OG, it skews the team's salary structure. You can't have OG's making more than your tackles or more than your RBs or WRs. Two, I wasn't that high on him. There were other players I thought were better. He may turn out to be a great OL. If so, good for him. But I would almost never take an OG in the top 15 of the 1st round, let alone the top 5. IMO that's just dumb and wasting the draft pick. You might as well just pass or give it to your toughest division competitor. With a top 5 pick you either HAVE to take a play maker, be it a QB, WR, RB, pass rushing DE/OLB, or maybe a CB or FA prospect like an Ed Reed type. The only OL position I would use a top 5 pick on under most circumstances would be the LT position. The one caveat would be if I had a team that was a top SB contender, and thought I was one player away from being able to get over the hump and win it, and that position was a RT or if I had a real weak link at one of the OG positions. Even then, I'd probably go with the BPA, and look to grab that RT or OG in the 2nd round. If I wanted to increase my chances of finding that player to fill that position, then I might take two or three of them in the 2nd-4th rounds. As we learned with Williams this year, you never know when shit will happen, and it always is smart to go with the BPA in the 1st round. I know that you think that Scherff was the BPA, but I don't. Since you like him so much, you ought to know how to spell his name correctly! LOL It's SCHERFF, not SCHREFF.
Laken Tomlinson actually went at the #28 pick of the 1st round to the Lions. I might would draft a stud OG prospect there, but not at #5. I wouldn't have taken Bitonio that high. I would have come closer to taking Zach Martin that high, but imo that's still too high for him. For me to take an OG that high, he'd have to be a can't miss, sure-fire HOFer, and even then I'm not sure I'd take him since one doesn't really have to have a HOF OG.
Joel Bitino went at the 35th overall pick near the top of round two. Once Teddy Bridgewater went off the board Bitino was easily best available player.
I could care less about the Cowboys too, but you have to recognize that a great guard is essential to a great offensive line. Like I said, you name me a very good offensive line without a talented guard - if you can provide that we can start somewhere, but I doubt you can. Larry Allen, again not a luxury - put a Brian Winters on that o-line and Emmitt Smith prob doesn't become Emmitt Smith. Key member. They might not win a specific SB w/out him. The salary cap is increasing, the cost to sign rookie's ain't that bad and if you can get a great guard - who cares about 5M? That guy is holding down part of the interior offensive line. You pay the price to have him. You know another thing about the draft, I'm kind of sick of this, "you only draft X position during this part of the draft" and this and that - you grab the best player available (90%) that fits a needs (10%). Of course use common sense when considering the position on your draft board. If you are the GM of the team, and you find a G that can provide complete stability to assist an aging LT and C - to stay in contention then damn-it, I am going to select that G in the top 10. Tell you what, this thread wouldn't exist if we got Chance Warmack instead of Dee Milliner. Plain and simple. PS - Scherff, I was murdering that name LOL. I don't like him as much as you think, but given the scenario presented on this topic - I would make the pick and move on. I'll pass on Kevin White.
I don't have the time or desire to research who in the league has the best OLs and who in history had the best OLs, and the quality of the players on each of those lines. Instead let me ask you a question. If having a great OG is so important, how come so many top shelf OGs (Mike Iupati, Orlando Franklin, and Clint Boling) were available in FA this year?
As you said, we'll agree to disagree. I was higher on Laken Tomlinson than most individuals. .. I believe he'll be a solid starter for years to come. Also , being able to play well at LT, is a bonus when it comes to versatility. A guy like Lae'll Collins will be able to handle edge rushers well at LT, he'll be decent at RT, and he'll be a very good guard . Now you may have been addressing his versatlity within schemes; in that case I agree with you because he's an excellent, physical drive blocker and he' quick enough to pull extremely well and kick out force defenders . And he has the footwork and lateral quickness(in the run game at least ) to function well in a ZBS. So yes I agree with that, but wasn't sure if that was your point. . I never said he wouldn't have a positive impact on the Skins OL, I just don't believe he'll be as GOOD as Zach Martin or Joel Bitonio were in there rookie seasons. However, we both seem to be agree that he will be a very good and potentially a perennial all pro guard. Regardless, I respect a healthy debate and that's one of the reasons why I enjoy "draft season". Scroll down to the DGB section of this column(number five WR): http://grantland.com/features/2015-...i-cooper-devante-parker-dorial-green-beckham/ When you look at his athletic web, he's not even close to the athlete that Calvin Johnson is or Randy Moss was. As an athlete he was severly overrated; As I said before I saw a stiff WR when I watched DGB at Missouri. Like, White, he has Julio Jones potential if everything breaks right , but the onky prospect over the last ten years who had Randy Miss potential based on his skills and athletic ability was Calvin Johnson. DGB will be a load to handle in the redzone, but based on his play at Missouri I wouldn't have taken him over Whute, who measured out as the better athlete, or Cooper who was the most "pro ready" WR in last year's class.
I'm normally a guy who doesn't value the guard position as much as others but playing in this division right now it is a very important one. The bills got Dareus and Kyle Williams and the Dolfags got Suh. Thats 4 games a year at the very least where the guards BECOME very important
