Religion - a respectful discussion, for those interested

Here's a case of the Catholic Church itself falsely accusing one of its own Priests of child abuse, according to the Boston Globe!

"In the four weeks since the end of his 76-day ordeal as a priest falsely accused of molesting a teenage boy, Monsignor Michael Smith Foster has reimmersed himself in his work as chief canon lawyer for the Archdiocese of Boston. His friends have never wavered. And on Friday, about 200 of his fellow priests applauded resoundingly when he spoke of the horror of being in church-imposed limbo for so long."

But so far, there has been no similar embrace from the leaders of the institution that Foster believes trampled on his rights - the archodiocesean officials who for more than two months seemed oblivious to evidence of his innocence and who decided on Oct. 30 to announce his reinstatement in a late-night fax that went almost unnoticed."

No one in authority, not Cardinal Bernard F. Law or any other bishop, has apologized to him for the way he was treated"

http://www.boston.com/globe/spotlight/abuse/stories3/112402_foster.htm

 

"BOGUS CHARGES AGAINST PRIESTS ABOUND"

http://www.catholicleague.org/bogus-charges-against-priests-abound/


.....since you only seem to read what's in big, bold print.

In case you want to read more:

"The Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests (SNAP) is identified by Pierre as a major culprit in advancing the destruction of innocent priests. He outlines the methods used by the group to manipulate clergy abuse charges and how they play the media. The organization, he says, provides talking points and staging tips for accusers and their attorneys at the workshops they hold at their yearly conference. SNAP’s tactics, he says, have grossly exaggerated the clergy abuse problem in the Church. "

 

1. Jews often go to Catholic schools in order to get a good education. ... TRUE.
2. It's important for Catholics to evangelize to non-believers. ... TRUE. just google "New Evangelization in the Catholic Church"
3. The clergy abuse scandals aren't real. ... I never said that! What I did say was that the number of guilty Priests is much smaller than what people on here are suggesting.
4. Normal Catholics routinely refer to their religion as "the pearl of great price. ... Again, I didn't say that, what I did say was that the phrase has been used to refer to the Church. I said I have heard it from famous Catholics, not people I know.
5. To study history is to denounce Protestantism. ... TRUE, that is a famous quote, I forgot who it's from but you can google it.
6. Science proves the existence of God, no faith required. TRUE, but I never said "no faith is required." Science can prove the necessity for a Creator, not strictly speaking that such a Creator actually exists. A subtle difference. In other words, the universe could not have come into being without an outside creation event, an event outside of space and time. What we call the supernatural, or God.

Hey, I believe, from my experiences and everything I've learned in my 40+ years of life, that the Catholic Church represents the fullness of truth. Or, put another way, the "evolution" of religion as we know it today, from historical events. But I am always open to discuss this in a respectful manner with anyone who disagrees, including anyone from other religious traditions. But so far, the only people posting in this thread are Catholics, Protestants, Atheists, and Agnostics. I am still waiting for a Jew, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, or someone from another religion to discuss the reality of the universe and human history with. In fact, I would LOVE to have that opportunity; again, a respectful discussion, which btw I have had on several occasions face to face with people in my life. Always an interesting, respectful discussion, and I never push my views on anyone, only share them. Big difference.

 

Here's the truth about the doctrine of Papal infallibility, often misunderstood, even by Catholics. Simply put, the Pope is only considered infallible on rare occasions, when he is making official pronouncements on matters of doctrine (if I understand it correctly myself). Popes can make mistakes when speaking with the media, Popes can and do commit sins (and consequently frequent the sacrament of reconciliation, some reportedly even on a daily basis!), and Popes can make other kinds of mistakes. In fact, some Popes in the history of the Church have been guilty of scandals such as the sale of indulgences, other financial corruption, etc. That's why Protestants broke away from the church in the 1500's; they became fed up with the corruption and instead of helping to reform the church, they broke away and made other changes that were not necessary, including changing doctrine erroneously. Today, thankfully, those abuses in the church have been reformed, and even the recent child abuse scandal has been dealt with using strict safeguards and much tighter "security" when it comes to admissions to seminaries.

Here's the explanation of Papal Infallibility:
http://www.catholic.com/tracts/papal-infallibility

 

First of all, my point is that the correct number is likely much closer to "2 or 3" than the "thousands" you claim. Again, that site you used listed 1001 allegations, and searching through that list I was only able to find a couple of convictions. You don't seem to understand the difference between allegations and convictions, or else you just use the terms interchangeably. But there's a big difference, of course, and nobody, not even the Pope, knows how many Priests were actually guilty. Some of the convicted Priests may have been falsely convicted, and the Church proactively defrocked many Priests before they were found to be guilty. It was a PR move to show that they were not covering anything up, and unfortunately a number of Priests were falsely punished as a result. (again, who knows how many).

There was a scandal, yes. There were probably some legit cases of abuse, I don't deny that. But none of us has any idea how many Priests were actually guilty, so it's pointless to debate it endlessly.

 

"Catholic Values
Grounded in 2,000 years of commitment to live out Our Lord's call to feed the hungry and clothe the naked, Catholic Charities USA is proud to live out our faith tradition of being a place where all are welcomed and helped to achieve their full God-given potential.

The following is a list of 10 ways Catholic Charities USA and its member agencies are a place where those in need come for aid, not because they are Catholic, but because we are:

1. Our ministry is rooted in the Scriptures.
The work we do has its roots deep in the Scriptures. In the Jewish Scriptures, at the heart of the biblical concept of justice was the care of the widow, orphan, and stranger. Responding to their needs was a special responsibility of the Jewish people, and this justice was the gauge of whether they understood their relationship to God and to one another.

It is no wonder that the contemporary work of Catholic Charities worldwide. continues to be primarily these same groups: women and children who are poor, and individuals who are marginalized because they are foreign workers, immigrants and refugees, they are racially different, they have a disability, they suffer from HIV/AIDS, or possess some other condition that sets them apart. How these people are treated tests our society’s justice, and whether or not we understand that we are children of one God who is passionately concerned for the least among us.

This was the teaching of Jesus as well. In the famous judgment scene in Matthew 25, Jesus tells his followers that the world will be judged by how they treat him, found among the hungry, homeless, sick, imprisoned, and poor. This teaching is reinforced in the great scene in the 13th chapter of the Gospel of John when Jesus washes the feet of his disciples and charges them to do so for others. It is an expression of the servant model of the Church underscored in the teaching of the Second Vatican Council.

2. This ministry has been an integral part of the Catholic Church for 2,000 years.
As the apostolic Church formed, the apostles faced a challenge that threatened to tear apart the new Christian community. The charge brought by the Greek Christians was that their widows were not receiving a share of the community’s goods. The apostles appointed the seven deacons whose first ministry was to make sure that justice was reflected in the life of the community, and that poor widows and children were cared for.

This ministry of caring for the needy was institutionalized in the great monasteries of the first millennium as the religious cared for orphans, the sick, the elderly, travelers, and the poor. From the monasteries, the ministry of caring was brought back into the cities by women and men religious who established orphanages, homes for the sick and elderly, hospices, and many other centers for health and social services. Later, lay and religious associations, such as those begun by St. Vincent de Paul, expanded and deepened this work.

Many other great saints were known for their ministries to the poor and vulnerable: St. Francis of Assisi, St. Clare, St. Peter Claver, St. Catherine of Siena, St. Martin de Porres, and St. Elizabeth Ann Seton.

These traditions were carried to the New World to become part of the institutional and parish life of the Catholic Church here. The first such foundation was the orphanage, home for “women of ill repute,” and health care facility begun by the Ursuline Sisters in New Orleans in 1727. By 1900, more than 800 Catholic charitable institutions existed in the United States. Now, staff and volunteers—serving over ten million individuals a year—care for infants with fetal alcohol syndrome, sponsor group homes for people with mental disabilities, provide homes for the elderly, resettle refugees, counsel troubled families, offer hospice to individuals with HIV/AIDS, feed hungry families, and shelter the homeless, all to ensure access to opportunity that makes real the promise of self sufficiency.

3. Catholic Charities promote the sanctity of human life and the dignity of the human person.
The ultimate rationale for our services is our belief in the sanctity of the human person and the dignity of human life. This is reflected, for example, in adoption programs that are among our oldest social services, and the care for sick and elderly people, which is a hallmark of our work.

While society may exclude some people because they are sick, disabled, poor, or racially different, Catholic Charities reach out to them with respect for their human dignity, which is at the root of Catholic social teaching. While society may reject some people because they are in prison or undocumented, we work to enhance their dignity, improve their lives, and meet their needs. Jesus Christ rejected no one from his healing touch and was known for his fellowship meals with tax collectors and sinners. So too, Catholic Charities accept even those whom political majorities would ignore or punish.

4. Catholic Charities agencies are authorized to exercise their ministry by the diocesan bishop.

5. Catholic Charities respect the religious beliefs of those we serve.
Many people are surprised to learn that Catholic Charities serve people of all faiths. They may be even more surprised to learn that most agencies do not even keep statistics on the religious affiliation of those who come to us.

This is not an accident of history or a result of receiving funding from the United Way or government entities. Instead, it reflects a determined position to serve the entire community, a custom going back as far as the fourth century and, in this country, to the Ursuline Sisters in New Orleans in 1727. ...

This decidedly ecumenical approach is simultaneously Roman Catholic. It reflects our respect for human dignity, religious liberty, and the ecumenical sensitivity promoted by Vatican II. ...

6. Catholic Charities recognize that some services require attention to physical, mental, and spiritual needs.
In some services, it is appropriate and necessary to recognize and respond to the physical, mental, and spiritual needs of those we serve. Addiction treatment programs, marriage and family counseling, grief ministries, and other services call for attention to all the integrated facets of human beings.

We do this in many ways consistent with our respect for the individual’s religious beliefs. For example 12-step programs have a distinctive spiritual component essential to their success. Homeless shelters often provide opportunities for sharing faith and hope, prayer of all kinds, and expressions of belief in a higher power. Senior centers and residences may provide opportunities for chaplaincy service of various denominations, depending on the desires of those served. And marriage and family counseling often must attend to the spiritual beliefs and values of those involved and how those beliefs help or hinder movement toward healing within the family. Counselors recognize and affirm the importance of this spiritual dimension of those they serve, again without imposing religious beliefs upon those involved.

7. Catholic Charities have a special relationship to the Catholic diocese and to Catholic parishes.
In more than half of U.S. dioceses, Catholic Charities agencies have formal programs through which the agency supports and encourages parishes in their ministry to the community and its needs. In many agencies this relationship also exists, although more informally. ...

8. Catholic Charities work in active partnership with religiously sponsored charities and the civic community.
Reflecting the teaching of the Second Vatican Council, Catholic Charities express the willingness and even responsibility of the Catholic Church to work hand-in-hand with other religions and other people of good will to serve community needs. We often support community-wide fundraising for the benefit of Catholic Charities, the charities sponsored by other churches, and other nonprofit organizations, such as fundraising conducted by the United Way. We build coalitions to address emerging community needs by developing new collaborative responses, community education, and combined advocacy before public and private forums....

9. Catholic Charities support an active public-private partnership with government at all levels.
The Catholic Church has a long and strong tradition of teaching about the responsibilities of government in promoting the common good and protecting the least among us, and the responsibilities of Catholics as citizens and taxpayers to support those roles and actively participate in civic life. ...

10. Catholic Charities blend advocacy for those in need and public education about social justice with service to individuals, families, and communities in need.


http://catholiccharitiesusa.org/mission-faith/catholic-values/

 

A common objection to religion is that it takes away our personal freedom to do whatever we want. But that's not really true. Think of the best basketball player in recent years, for example; maybe Michael Jordan or LeBron James. They seemed free to do pretty much whatever they wanted to do on the court; drive past defenders with ease, execute magnificent dunks, fade-away jumpers, etc. Athletic talent can be described as physical and mental self-mastery that is developed over many years through discipline, practice, and determination. Those players are not born with the ability to do whatever they want on the basketball court. They have to deny themselves many of life's more immediate pleasures; junk food, overeating, staying out late, etc. They force themselves to adhere to a strict training regimen, diet, etc, denying themselves the "freedom" to make many of the choices we do each day. But as they get better and better on the basketball court, their freedom to execute the beautiful, jaw-dropping moves that bring fans to their feet grows day by day, week by week, year by year. Their freedom, satisfaction, and Joy in the game they love grows the more they practice self-discipline and the harder they work at self-improvement. The same is true of the spiritual life, and of organized religion. When we discipline ourselves to avoid sin in our lives (unhealthy,self-destructive choices), we become more free to make the choices we really want to make, which will enhance and improve our lives. Sin becomes habitual, and we all know bad habits are hard to break. Especially temptations of the flesh; gluttony, sloth (laziness), lust, etc. They take time away from what's really important to us in our lives, and can even lead to physical and psychological problems. When we work on practicing the virtues in our lives, and avoiding self-destructive vices of all kinds, we grow in spiritual Joy; inner peace, a sense of fulfillment, lasting happiness, an increased ability to weather the "storms" of life, etc. It takes time, effort, perseverance, and a commitment to self-improvement. For me, I know that I am happier when I am living more closely the teachings of my Catholic Faith. I stumble and fall, succumb to temptation like anyone else, but when I am able to avoid these self-destructive behaviors for any extended period of time, there is no doubt that my inner peace, contentment, and Joy is enhanced greatly! It really works....but like anything worthwhile, it takes some effort and doesn't always come easily. But the results are transformative and profoundly life-enhancing!