Thanks for posting this. Very interesting and a good read. I find the idea that Parcells decided to put together a great draft for Groh laughable. Parcells only cared about Parcells. There isn't one altruistic bone in that bastard's body. What I don't understand is where was that acumen in his other drafts. Why did they ALL suck and this one turn out so great? Maybe it was just the law of averages finally catching up.
I had forgotten about this thread. I see that I've missed a LOT! LOL You need to qualify your statement regarding Polian. Polian was one of the greatest GMs in the history of any sport. He built those powerhouse Buffalo teams that went to what, 3-4 straight SBs, and turned the expansion Carolina Panthers into the most successful expansion team ever. He was bad with the Colts. The game had either passed him by or he had lost his eye for talent, at least on the defensive side of the ball. Peyton carried those Colts teams. I don't know (or care) if Polian drafted Edgerin James, Reggie Wayne and some of the other great offensive Colts players, but he sure didn't help the team with regards to the defense. As far as Peyton on the Jets, it's hard to know what would have happened. If Tuna had guaranteed to draft him with the 1st pick and Peyton had allowed himself to be drafted by the Jets, I think our history would have been much different. Would Parcells have stayed longer? I think so. He said that Vinny getting hurt in the '99 season opener took a LOT out of him. If Peyton was here, we may have won the '98 and '99 SBs. Tuna may have continued coaching and won a bunch more. Even if he left, with a great QB in place, the Jets should have had better luck in hiring HCs and whoever the HCs were, in all likelihood, they would have made it to the playoffs each year with Peyton as QB.
I think it was because he knew he wasn't going to be around for long and he decided to shoot his load in one fell swoop. My biggest problem with Parcells drafts-pretty much all of them until 2000 was that he compulsively traded 1st and 2nd and 3rd round picks down and down and down to pick up literally worthless 5th and multiple 6th and 7th rounders. I guess his theory was quantity over quality in the hopes that if you throw enough shit at the wall, something will stick. And he was going to be the coach so he wanted that optionality. Whoopee we got Jason Ferguson in the 7th round!! Because he got nailed smoking pot and dropped like a stone. But Parcells traded out of the 1 (Orlando Pace) then traded again out of the 6 to the 8 to take Farrior and picked up a shit load of worthless 5th 6th and 7th round picks- lucking out into Ferguson. Go look what he did in 1997, 1998 and 1999. Look at the number of 6th and 7th round picks we had- virtually all of them failures. Drove me crazy. I get the theory but geezuz he fucked up those drafts. He nailed the 2000 draft as best he could. _
I guess my point was, if he was going to continue to coach, he likely trades most of those 4 first rounders for a dozen 5th 6th and 7th rounders _
In hindsight we know that BB is a douche bag and a cheater. We didn't know that at the time. At the time I didn't blame BB for leaving at all. It was clear that there was no love lost between BB and Tuna. With a new owner coming in and the outgoing owner being such a senile, doddering old moron, who can blame anyone for not wanting to stay for that reason alone. Factor in the Parcells angle and Kraft probably cheating and offering him money under the table, and it's a no-brainer to leave. You contradict yourself and make my case for me with the first two bolded sentences. Manning was special. At that point in time he was the best QB prospect to come down the pike in a LONG time. He was one of those "can't miss" prospects. He had prototypical size, a great pedigree, was smart, had a great arm and very talented. Only an egomaniacal douchebag wouldn't have made that guarantee then took Manning. You don't trade a QB prospect like that. It doesn't matter what you would get in return, it wouldn't be enough. QB is THE most important position on the team. Parcells' ego had more to do with it than anything. HE wanted to be the center of attention. He didn't want a QB who would be a big star and who might buck him. Just like Rex wants to win with D, Parcells wanted to win because of his coaching brilliance. Parcells wanted to be known as one of the all-time great HCs. Ironically, if he had set his ego aside, he probably would have that guaranteed, because with Manning, if Parcells had stayed as HC and stayed out of Peyton's way, Parcells could have ridden Manning's coattails to probably 3-4 SB wins. Parcells is the biggest douche in the history of the game.
LOL! The great and might junc sees all and knows all. Of course he's wrong. BB may have had the same CS, but wouldn't have had the same GM and scouting depts. He also wouldn't have had 3-6th round draft picks. To say that because we didn't take Chad in the 1st we would have taken Brady in the 6th is laughable. Probably THE MOST LAUGHABLE assertion I've ever seen on ANY Jets board. NO ONE knows who would have been drafted if BB stayed. With Tannenbaum a neophyte, would BB have had the cache and power to make the picks? If he did, would he have traded up for Ellis? Probably not. Since the Jets were very high on Chad and on Laveranues and had both rated as 1st round talents, who knows? They may have been the Jets first two picks. Would Abe have been drafted by BB? Again, who knows? One thing is for certain. Junc doesn't know squat, even though he thinks he does. Sad and pathetic.
Yup, you got it bud! That's exactly where I was going with this. I give Polian credit for BUF / Carolina, but he did an awful job for the Colts. OK, he got Peyton [not that hard to do], he did an absolutely awful job fielding a defense. Colts could've won more SBs if they fielded a better overall team, but somehow I got into an argument with Junc about Peyton Manning's post-season woes. With Peyton we prob win at least 2 SBs. 2009, if we were able to get the same type of defense, we would've been a powerhouse from 08-2011.
Regardless of whether Belli stayed or not, Parcells would have been in control of that draft and likely would have taken as many of those players he took that he could have taken. Parcells for all his BS to the media was all about Parcells. He didn't give a crap about coaches shopping for the groceries. He was about PARCELLS shopping for the groceries. _
First, I will disagree with your last statement again. Archie Manning's position was TOTALLY reasonable imo. He wanted what was best for his son. After being stuck his whole career on a joke of a team, he was trying to make sure the same thing didn't happen to his son. Parcells did NOT make the right call. If Parcells had set his damned ego aside for one second, he would have made that guarantee, taken Manning and never looked back. I am certain that he didn't because of his ego. Instead of coming out of that draft with one of the best QBs of all time, or failing that coming out with either Orlando Pace or Walter Jones, he came out with Jeff Lageman, Leon Johnson (who was a very nice RB, but not THAT special), Jason Ferguson and a bunch of crap. With regards to what would have happened had BB remained as the Jets HC and Parcells left, you, nor I, nor ANYONE has a clue what would have happened. All we can do is guess and speculate. Prior to the 2000 draft, Parcells had done an absolutely atrocious job "buying the groceries." He was one of the worst all time drafters. He passed up on a HOF QB and two HOF LTs in ONE DRAFT to add a bunch of bums and a few guys who were good players for us, but nothing special. I could be wrong of course, but I have to think that there are only two ways that Parcells could have suddenly done such a great job with the 2000 draft. One involves his listening to his scouting dept. rather than ignoring them and making the decisions on his own. The other involves the law of averages catching up with him (Even a broken clock is right twice a day.). With BB as HC and a rookie GM in Tannenbaum who had little or no experience with personnel, who knows what would have happened in the 2000 draft? Keyshawn may or may not have been traded. For certain the Jets wouldn't have gotten a 1st round pick from NE for BB. But just because they didn't have 4 1st round picks in 2000, doesn't mean the Jets couldn't have built a great team and winner. The odds are of course that they probably wouldn't have, particularly seeing some of the screwy picks BB has made in NE, but we'll never know. You're correct that the team prior to Parcells had a ton of holes and little talent. As usual, junc is clueless. The one thing I'll give Parcells credit for is the vet FAs he brought in. Of course the problem is he destroyed the cap in so doing. He knew he wasn't there for the long haul and didn't want to have to go through a slow building process. As a result, he screwed the team in more ways than one. He stuck us with those boobs Tannenbaum and Bradway. The Jets wound up losing a bunch of those players he brought in and several of the few good draft picks he made, because of the cap hell he left us in.
Good post, but anyone who tries to argue with junc is just wasting his/her time. junc sees all, knows all.
You know you won't win. junc is ALWAYS right (in his own mind). I can't believe you're still arguing with him. smh
How many of you seeing that picture of Leon Hess want to first, puke, and second, knock his damned head off? I know I did. LOL
You don't have different views. YOU have the correct answer. junc, as usual, is full of shit. He makes up stuff in his delusional world.
As I said in one of my posts, I think Parcells was one of the WORST drafters ever. In '97 alone he passed up a HOF QB (Manning) and two HOF LTs (Orlando Pace and Walter Jones) for Jeff Lageman, Leon Johnson and Jason Ferguson. Trading down is not necessarily a bad thing unless the draft is not a good and/or deep one. I don't think those drafts were. I understand (as opposed to junc) that the cupboard was bare and there was little talent on the team. There were a ton of holes. The Jets needed quantity AND quality. STILL, you don't pass up a QB prospect like Manning to trade down, not once but twice. That said I suppose we should be thankful that he didn't take Darrell Russell or Shawn Springs with the #1 pick that year. What pissed me off about Parcells' handling of the draft was not necessarily all the trading down, but in general the absolutely HORRIBLE and ATROCIOUS picks he made in the 2nd thru rounds. Rick Terry? Terry Day? Dorian Boose? Scott Frost? In taking Rick Terry, he passed up on Jamie Sharper, Tiki Barber, Dexter McCleon, Jake Plummer, Corey Dillon, Sam Madison, Adam Meadows, and even Mike Minter and Darren Sharper would have been better picks. In taking Terry Day, he passed up on some serviceable players like Pete Monty, Darnell Autry, Chris Dishman, and Jamie Nails, plus maybe some others. In taking Dorian Boose and Scott Frost, he passed up on some serviceable players like Olin Kreutz, Jeremy Newberry, Leonard Little, Robert Hicks, Skip Hicks, and Ahman Green. Those weren't great drafts, but there were still decent players to be found, and mostly what Parcells found were unmitigated busts who contributed little or nothing to the team. I don't know how Parcells made the 2000 draft he did. It was unlike any of his others, and not just because he had 4 1st round picks. He actually picked quality players (well, maybe not Becht).
LOL he may have. Hopefully, by that point he had signed enough vets to fill all the holes, and was drafting BPA rather than for need. I had never really thought about that before, but that's exactly what Parcells did...draft for need.
Peyton Manning was a no-brainer. Only Parcells turned that opportunity down. I definitely agree that with a better D, the Colts would have won more than one SB, and that if we had had Manning, we would have won at least 2 SBs, maybe a whole slew of them. Just think of it...we probably would have won in 1998 and 1999. Cap hell would have caught up with us in 2000, but we still might have won in 2000. If we had Peyton, Parcells might not have give up the farm for CuMar, either. He might have been content to take a RB or two in the drafts that followed Peyton's being chosen. Even if Parcells left after 2000, and even with Mangini or Herm as HC, I can't see how we would have failed to at least go deep into the playoffs. But with Manning and a 2 or 3-time SB winning squad, I think HC candidates would have been lining up to replace Parcells and we would have had a better HC. For that matter, even with that doofus Rex Ryan as HC we probably would have won 1-2 SBs.
The best pass rushing duo in Jets history by far didn't like each other either and were also polar opposites in Klecko and Gastineau. Maybe it takes a real rivalry to bring out the best in people?
Parcells didn't turn Peyton Manning down. He had no choice in the matter. He was hired for one thing only and that was to get Leon Hess a Super Bowl trophy in the 2 years he had left. Parcells would never have taken the Jets job in the first place if he didn't have that in front of him. He could have gotten big money anywhere. He wanted to get Hess a trophy even if it meant winning for a fan base he wasn't fond of.
