Belichick was a back-stabbing douche bag. Even if Parcells was not staying on as GM, he still could / would have left us cold and taken the New England job anyway. On top of that, we were a very bad football team before Parcells came here. There is no guarantee that Belichick would have had half the success here that Parcells did. As for Manning, no coach worth his salt would let a player (especially a potential draft pick with no NFL experience) force him to commit to a no trade deal as Peyton and Archie Manning wanted Parcells to do. While it would have been nice to have Manning, who knows what we could have gotten had we traded him to the highest bidder. We almost made it to a Superbowl victory with Vinny anyway.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-bill-chris-polian-for-bad-decade-of-drafting This isn't just about the beginning of Peyton's career, but Bill Polian's tenure as a GM. Indy had some good pass-rushers, but they were always finesse and suspect to a good running game. If they built a dominant defense, they would've won more SBs. They expected Peyton to carry the team to the SB and win it, but it led to more first round exits than anything.
they had more than enough defensive talent to win multiple SBs, the D carried them to their lone SB but the team was built around the O and the O should have been able to win one too. the one and dones were mostly on peyton and the offense. I'm not sure there's a single one and done you can blame the D mostly for.
I am assuming based on what actually happened. who knows if we trade Key if BB is still here? many things could have changed but w/ the same staff lobbying for him late in the draft I think it is logical to think we could have taken him and ultimately BP cost us Manning and a chance at Brady.
we had a ton of talent pre BP, BP coached that talent up and we became winners again. we went 9-7 w/ al groh in 2000, I think we would have been fine w/ BB. Remember how we got BP? there's no sense whining that Kraft did the same thing to us but had BP just left BB would have been our coach. all the Mannings wanted was to make sure BP took Peyton which he would have. he wanted to come to NY but w/o assurance he went back to Tennessee. even if BP lied he should have told him that, he's lied a million times before- all o a sudden he has a conscience now? BP didn't want Peyton Manning to come out, in those days teams weren't winning big w/ rookie QBs and BP knew he was in this for a few years max and didn't want to waste that time developing a young QB.
You are missing my point. I am saying that Belicheck would not have succeeded if we went with him instead of Parcells (because Parcells cost us Belicheck). What Parcells did to rebuild this team was something special. Although I think Al Groh was an under-rated coach I have no doubt that Belicheck could have coached the team AFTER Parcells fixed it. Also that ton of talent (pre BP) had the worst record in the NFL two years in a row. We had tons of holes before BP fixed them. You missed another point I clearly made. I was not whining about Kraft. I stated that if Bill Parcells had left Belicheck (who quit to take the New England job) would have quit anyway. Unless Archie Manning was the Jets GM, his position was not reasonable. Parcells made the right call in saying no.
yeah, I am going to disagree on that - they could've had a much better defense. They could never find a good nose tackle for their defense - they were always susceptible to the run game. Running game raped the Colts in that 41-0 rout if you remember. Corey Dillion rushing for 150 yards in that divisional round game when Corey first arrived for the Patriots.
We don't know. So declaring that BP costs us TB is erroneous. The staffs would not have been same. You're talking about a whole FO, including a complete scouting dep't, and complete pro personnel dep't. As a matter of fact it's more likely that it was the people that were in place when BB got there that were responsible for TB.
I understand the point, I don't understand why he wouldn't have succeed when al Groh succeeded. Parcells did NOT rebuild this team, the team was mostly put together. he transformed talent but losing players into winners, that work was done so BB didn't have to do that(which is something he would later do in NE anyway). you have no doubt he could have? then what are we discussing? look up and down that roster in 1998, so many key guys were inherited. BP brought a few pieces to help but the players were mostly there. BP was not a dummy, he saw the talent we had here, he knew it wouldn't take long to turn us around. BP is an all time great coach, as a GM type he was mediocre. of course they could have had a better D but they were built on O, built around Peyton and he proved unworthy of being able to lead teams to multiple championship and only has 1 b/c of great D and great luck. the D was outstanding that postseason and they faced some pretty bad Os and got Brady when his main weapons were reche Caldwell and jabar Gaffney. some of those playoff losses they got run on but pretty much all they didn't score enough and the opponent didn't score a ton(outside of the 42 we put on them). I have never "declared it", I have always said he probably cost us Brady. he took mostly everyone from the Jets, he would have had the same trusted guys around him he had in NE. even guys that weren't w/ us, the guys he hired to work w/ him in NE would have been hired here. Dick Rehbein is a guy credited w/ lobbying BB to take Brady. he was brought to NE by BB when BB.
They went crazy in regards to building the offense via the draft. You win in this league by having a good all around team, that includes getting good players on D. The offense can't carry the defense to a ring. The Colts should've focused on fielding a better defense that can stop the run and generate more turnovers. The year the Colts won the SB, they had a pretty good defense that was able to stop the run and generate turnovers. Polian was an overrated drafter IMO, especially during the Peyton tenure.
You said BP cost us "BB/TB". TB was picked in 2000. The staff that picked TB was in place already. The FO started to change shape the next year. If BB had stayed in NY the staff that was in place would've made the picks for him and he would've changed the make up after the years scouting period was over. This a common practice when changes are made in the CS. He didn't change out the staff the first year It's more likely that BB had very little to do with picking TB. It was a lucky pick that most likely the area scout at the time brought to the attention of the scouting director, who BB actually changed in 2001. The Dick Rehbein Myth aside, assuming Rehbein would've actually come here in 2000, that he would actually influence a call on picking TB in the 6th rd. is a long reach at best
they had a good all around team, they had a great O and a good D. Unfortunately in postseason the great O become an average O. the year they won the SB the D was GREAT in postseason, some of that had to do w/ facing mediocre offenses but they were still great and outside of one half in the AFC title game the O and Peyton were mediocre at best that entire postseason. The reason they didn't win 2-3-4 titles was b/c of Peyton and the O NOT the D. the staff was not already in place, BB brought the people over w/ him either from the Jets(where he brought a ton of guys from) or other places. BB ran the drafts, he had everything to do w/ actually drafting BB and was encouraged by others most notably Rhebein who he brought in earlier that year. if he brought Rhebein w/ him to NE why wouldn't he have brought him here? the bottom line is this, we took a QB b/c we had 4 1st rounders. If BB stays here we lose at least one of those 1st rounders and if he keeps Key then we lose 3 of them. w/ 1 less 1st rounder we may not have taken Chad, w/ 3 less there's no chance we take Chad. Brady wasn't drafted to be a starter so drafting Chad or not may have been irrelevant but following he logic it is easy to see how we possibly could have taken Brady.
Most of the people that were there stayed the first year. The bottom line is this: Saying BP cost us TB is silly. As if you know how history would run it's course with a different set of circumstances and people. Bottom line... right Scott Pioli said himself it was the area scout. And Pioli did not become scouting director until 2001. Believe in Myths all you want. I could care less
I have already said he MAY have cost us Brady. we do know he did coast us Manning, he did cost us BB and there's a great chance he cost us Brady too. Since you know all the facts- who was responsible for drafting Brady?
I didn't write it the right way, I have always said he cost us Manning and BB and in turn most likely Brady as well. I have said over and over since that quote that he may have cost us Brady. again, looking at it logically you can see how Brady could have been a Jet had BB stayed. It doesn't really matter though, BP gave us a few good years then bolted leaving us in cap hell. Great coach and mediocre at best GM type.
Bubby was awful but I put those minimum deal guys in a separate category from the guys that the team is excited about signing. Bubby was signed as a backup and had to play on an awful team. Atwater was a bigger money guy, a guy they tried to sell us as one of the missing pieces for a SB run so I agree w/ Atwater.
The season they won the SB, the running game and the defense really came through. You can't expect Peyton and the offense to put up 30+ points in every post-season game. That's when the run game and the defense needs to step up, and I don't think Polian did nearly enough on defense to make them a complete team [in which they weren't outside of the SB yr]. You can look at their draft history on defense, the acquisitions they made. If they had a more well-rounded team, I think there would be 2 more SBs w/ the Colts.
