to be fair toward younger Jet fans(I am getting old and never saw Namath play but I appreciate what he did) all they have seen is Joe get drunk on the sideline and embarrass the franchise and constantly bash the team(whether it was deserved or undeserved) so I can understand a younger fan being frustrated w/ him. SB III means nothing to them
I wish I was able to watch Namath freaking play. I know the Raiders, had 3 or 4 great defensive backs and those backs always gave Namath and the Jets nightmares. Hell that defense as a whole was no joke. The Bills, had one of the better run defenses in AFL / NFL in the early 60s. Tough to place the blame, could've been the defense, could have been Namath making crazy decisions. I really wish I knew. America's game documentary told me that Namath made boneheaded mistakes prior to him being named captain. Sucks for the Chargers!
Fran and Tittle were better for their careers but not as Giants. those guys barely played w/ the Giants. Tittle played 4 seaosns and Tarkenton played 5 seasons.
Yup. If you only look at stats and only passing stats in a vacuum, you can't really judge what really mattered in whether the team won or lost. _
Don Maynard was every bit as valuable to Namath in his first few years as Irvin was to Aikman. People forget that Don Maynard retired as the all-time catch leader and that the only other guy within 80 catches of him at the time was the all-time great Raymond Berry, whose record he surpassed.
Oh, I totally agree about Aikman not being better than Namath. Aikman wasn't a scab on Joe's butt. Simms wasn't very good early in his career, but he became very consistent and very accurate. He didn't beat himself. He was smart and didn't turn the ball over like Eli. While he wasn't an all time great, I think he was a better QB than Eli. He fit perfectly in the Giants' offense and executed it pretty flawlessly. The same can't be said of Eli.
Namath had a very talented cast in the 60s. Maynard was a better player in his era than Irvin was in his.
I understand what you're saying, and you have a point. I think part of the problem is a lack of respect among younger generations for those who preceded them. Still, if one chooses to become a fan of a sports team, imo one should read about its history, know who its great players were, why they were considered great, try to see clips of them, and appreciate and respect what they brought to the team. Trashing Namath, is akin to young Yankee fans trashing Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio, Mantle and others or young Mets fans trashing Gooden, Strawberry, and others.
I know that they only played a short time for the Giants, but I was just making the point that they were better QBs and played for the Giants. Tarkenton himself said that he thought his years with the Giants were the best of his career, even though the Giants team wasn't very good. Tittle was very good with the Giants for the first 3 years of his career with them. I think it was his last year that his play deteriorated badly.
Hall of Fame, not Hall of Statistics. Eli played really well for the Giants for the following seasons: 08, 09, 2011, 2012, 2014. That's 5 seasons of really good play. 2011, he put that team on his back - you cannot discredit him for that season, one of the more impressive runs by a QB in a season IMO. Still 2 SB rings / 2 SB MVPs; 8-3 record in the playoffs. He's going to get in, especially with more seasons left. People will remember that win over the Patriots and will vote for him to get in.
I'm with you, I'm a history guy so I understand. Just giving some reasoning for their attitudes. I wasn't alive for SB III but I have read, watched, listened to so many different accounts of that season and that era. I even have a copy of SB II and have watched the entire game. I will always have an appreciation for what Joe and that team accomplished.
OK, damn you had to bring Fran into the conversation didn't you lol ... Fran, when I think of him, I think of the Vikings, not so much the Giants. You have a valid point. YA Tittle also great QB. I think when it's all said and done though, people are going to think of Eli Manning as the best QB. The win over the Pats will only give him more credit as time goes on. But Fran was a better QB no doubt about it. Eli brought them 2 SB rings though ...
to be in the HOF you usually have to be a great player, has Eli ever really been great? maybe 2011? playing "really well" and at a HOF level are 2 very different things. he was ok in '09 and ok in '12(made PB based on multiple players dropping out). In '09 in meaningless week 17 game he threw 5 TDs going from 21 and 15 to 26 and 15 which looks very different on paper. he had an excellent 2011 season, led a bunch of comebacks but he didn't carry anything. Cruz's emergence was huge that year and in the biggest play of the year Cruz took a shirt pass and went 99 yds changing the seasons for both teams in that game. they don't even get to the SB in 2011 if their STs doesn't force TWO fumbles in the 2nd half/OT to set up their only pts of the 2nd half/OT. the Giant D held down GREAT offenses like NE(twice) and GB(on the road). I like Eli, he's a GOOD QB but as of now I don't see the HOF.
he had really good OLs, Ricky Watters was a top back at the time and their D was really, really good. they were top 6 in pts allowed 6 of his first 7 years there when he had championship caliber teams around him. was it the same as Aikman? No but similar and Rice was obviously better than Irvin.
Great points. I just feel Eli was asked to do more. Simms always had a great defense to back him up. They were consistently in the top 10 of rankings in regards to defensive performance. Giants in 2011 were 25th in Points given up per game. They were even worse when it comes to the running game. 2008 the Giants were a really good overrall You put Simms on the 2011 Giants and the Giants aren't winning the SB.
You serious, Eli didn't carry anything in 2011? Look at the comebacks, the Giants had an awful defense and an awful running game. Luckily, the Giants came through against the 49ers in 2011, but Eli kept them in that game by making throws to extend drives. Not to mention Alex Smith, completely shitting the bed in the NFCCG. you could argue 2011 Eli did more for his team then any other QB besides Rodgers and Luck in recent memory in terms of awful running games and defenses. And oh yeah, Eli and the Giants kicked the Packers ass too. I definitely see HOF for Eli. First ballot? Absolutely not, but he will get in.
the rankings don't show how great the Giants D was in postseason. they shut out Atlanta(Atl averaged 25 PPG) they held GB to 20 pts which includes a garbage time TD(they averaged 35 a game) they held SF to 17 in 5 qtrs.(they averaged 24 PPG) they held NE to 17 pts(they averaged 32)
I'm talking regular season for the most part when it comes to rankings and statistics. You have to win games in the regular season too. If the D and running game were great, Eli Manning wouldn't have to pull magic out of his ass week in and week out. 49ers lost because of Alex Smith - Alex Smith was so bad in that 2nd half.
