as far as I know he had a good OL when they were winning, not sure about the 70s but his quick release could make up for some OL issues(the way Marino did in Miami). Joe was a great downfield passer but maybe if he takes more sacks instead of throw INTs they win more? I don't know. I do know that today on this board a QB would be skewered if he threw 6 INTs(2 pick 6's) in a game that ended in a tie and a QB that helped his team reach just 2 postseasons would get killed too. was that all his fault? no but he contributed.
I think that championship run as a whole, along with his ability to throw the football, and the fact that he put up some fantastic #s in a league where passing was a tough feat due to the rules makes him a HOF QB. They were the ultimate underdogs. Eli Manning one day will prob be in the HOF as well, and he's had 2 or 3 seasons where he's thrown 20+ interceptions. The fact that he beat the Patriots, one of the biggest upsets in NFL history. I think Namath stayed in the league a little longer then he should have and I think that hurt his #s a little bit. At the end of the day, if I had to compile a list of 25 of the best QBs ever, he makes the list IMO. Again, it's not the Hall of Statistics, it's the Hall of Fame.
Namath was a counter-culture guy in the mid-60's. It's hard to figure out why exactly he was perceived as he was because his cultivated image was as a young, hip partier. There were a lot of professional athletes that were more in the conventional mainstream and very few who embraced the culture of the day the way that Namath did.
passing was not tough, wasn't the AFL a wide open, passing league? eli will not be a HOFer unless he has some incredible seasons the next 5-7 years. I am not sure he makes a top 25 list, possibly near the bottom but probably not for me.
No sane person who watched Namath play in his prime thinks he shouldn't be in the Hall. And even though some so-called fans hate the fact, there is no player more important to the legacy and history of the NY Jets than Joe Namath. Deal with it.
there may not be a more important player in pro football history, for that he belongs in the Hall. on the field though he didn't play at a high enough level long enough.
There were high octane offenses, but there were some really good defenses as well in that era. The Raiders, Chiefs were just examples of hard hitting defenses. Jets in the past, could never beat the Raiders and that Raiders team had one hell of a secondary. Even the Buffalo Bills in the early 60s were pretty good. Eli Manning is making the HOF. 2 SB rings, 2 SB MVPs, top 2 biggest upset in NFL history, and still has 4 or 5 seasons left of decent play. He's going to get in. Joe Namath definitely is in my top 25, near the bottom, but he would be in the top 25.
Some posters can only look to the stats to form opinions--unfortunately that's all they have. I've heard Sammy Baugh and Norm Van Brocklin and Otto Graham and Bobby Layne were great QBs but I have no way to gauge them because I never saw them play and I can't put what they did into context because of how different the league was back then. Video doesn't tell the story. I'd never try to judge any of these guys. I only saw the very end of Unitas' greatness so even him I can't truly judge but I respect the opinions of my elders who saw him play. _
We had a lot of blue collar guys in Klecko and Philbin. A lot of this information, I got from America's Game. Philbin thought Namath had his own set of rules. In 69, they finally voted for Namath as team captain and he changed his act on the field. I guess people thought Namath wasn't about winning compared to the rest of the team.
eli is not getting in as of now, he's won playoff games in only 2 seasons of his long career and those SB runs were won w/ D more than anything else(though Eli played well). he has a lot of work to do but 2 MVPs gives him a great start(though he didn't deserve either one). as of right now he is kind of like a modern day Jim Plunkett. off the top of my head(not in order) Brady Montana Marino P. Manning Dawson Unitas Bradshaw Brees Rodgers Young Aikman Staubach Elway Kelly Roethlisberger Moon Fouts Favre Layne Graham Warner Baugh Tittle Starr Tarkenton that's 25 right there and I haven't gotten to Jurgensen, Van Brocklin, Baugh and others. top 25 is very generous.
Most star QB's have their own set of rules. It's just how things go in a sport where one position is more important than the others. If you look back at the Jets box scores from 1965 to 1967 you see a few real stinker games out of Namath with 5 or even 6 Int's. The Jets lost those games, often by high and tight scores. The fact that the scores were high in many of them tells you that playing it close to the vest wasn't really going to be an option on the day. Frequently the opposing QB didn't have the best day either, throwing a few picks. This undoubtedly because when they were matched against the Jets offense they also had to take a bunch of risks. It's just really hard to look back at a different era in history and draw valid conclusions based on what is ok or not in the modern NFL. The Jets lose to the Raiders with Namath throwing 3 TD's and 3 Int's. On the other side of the ledger Daryl Lamonica throw 3 TD's and 2 Int's. What was really the story on that day? Did Namath actually make that many more bad passes than the Mad Bomber or did he just have to make a few he'd rather not have thrown because the Raiders offense was setting such a high tempo? He throws 5 picks against the Bills his second year in a 33-23 loss in 55 drop backs. The Jets rush for 5 yards on the day on 9 attempts. The opposing QB, Jack Kemp, throws 3 picks and no TD's in 40 passes while getting 134 yards on the ground out of his rushing game. What was the story on that day? How is anybody supposed to look at games like that and know exactly what was happening on the field and who was at fault?
As of now, he's not first ballot and never will, but Eli has the rings, the SB MVPs and he is accumulating the stats. Eli is approaching 300 TDs in his career and has an Iron Man streak. 2011, Eli carried a weak ass run offense and a meh defense to the SB, he gets A LOT of credit for that SB run. Plunkett took a little longer to become a GOOD full time starter as he experienced failures, I think with 2 other teams. Eli is the best Giants QB in franchise history, he should get in no doubt. I'm taking the following QBs off that list [all QBs are fully healthy in this discussion]: Ben Roethlisberger Bobby Layne Jim Kelly Troy Aikman I personally would take a healthy Namath over those QBs. Namath was more talented then those guys, experienced success, and while those 4 had more success [cept for Kelly] - Namath was better all around. Sammy Baugh deserves to be on that list. Aikman is prob the most overrated QB in NFL history does not.
Roethlisberger is going to make the Hall of Fame. He's got a better chance than Eli Manning right now although I think both will eventually get in.
he has played in a stat padding era, you can't compare his #s to past HOFers. most QBs in this era that have started for a while will compile similar #s or better. I think Simms was better than Eli, just played in different era and not as long. a healthy Namath would go over many more than those 4 but he was rarely healthy and we have to look at the entire career. Aikman is severely underrated.
I agree that he probably could have been a better leader. With his reported carousing, there's no telling if he showed up for meetings or practices hung over or exhausted from a night's carousing. He probably didn't take care of himself as well as he should have, and his ego probably got the better of him at times as well. I'm sure that there was probably also some jealousy among other Jets' players that Namath was getting all the fame, money and women. Whatever the case, I think your last sentence says it all. That's why I don't think any true Jets fan can say that Namath doesn't belong in the HOF and/or that he wasn't a great QB. I've seen a number of younger posters on other Jets fan sites criticize Namath as an old drunk and its obvious they have no respect for him. That bugs the hell out of me. While I'll stop short of saying that they must be trolls, and urging that they go root for another team, I will say that if they love the team as much as they claim, that they need to shut up, do some research and learn about Namath and what the game was like at that time. If one purports to love the Jets as much as one does to be a Jets fan and post on a Jets fan site, then one can't fail to understand what Namath means to this franchise, what he meant to the game itself, how he gave the Jets their one shining moment of glory, how few Jets there are in the HOF, and should be glad he's in the HOF, not claiming he doesn't deserve it.
You still have to give Eli the benefit of having 2 SB MVPs; and he carried the 2011 Giants to the SB. I don't like the Giants, but I respect what Eli has done for them. He will get in the HOF. Simms is overrated as hell, 86 he was great, but outside of 86 - Simms wasn't that impressive at all. Especially in the post-season. Eli has been better in the post-season no doubt. More clutch. Aikman is not better than Namath. Aikman had the best offensive line prob in NFL history, one of the best running games, great defenses and Michael freaking Irvin. I got respect for Aikman for his playoff performances, but he's not a better QB then Namath.
how many legit HOF worthy seasons has Eli had? 1 maybe 2?(2008, 2011). he has the 2 great SB runs but has never won a playoff game in another season and has missed the playoffs 5 of the last 6 seasons. how many HOF QBs have missed postseason 5 of 6 years? maybe back in the days when 2 teams made it but in this era especially in the weak NFC East(where his lone playoff app in the span was b/c the division was so weak) to miss 5 of 6 is awful. he's also thrown 20 or more INTs 3 times, 25 or more twice, has led the league in INTs 3 times and has only thrown as many as 30 TDs twice. he has work to do, the good news is he'll have Beckham in his prime which is sure to drive up his #s.
he carried nothing, the defense carried the 2011 giants to the SB. Eli played well no doubt but both SB runs were led by their D/STs. Simms is very underrated b/c he played during a run heavy time for the Giants but that man made plays. if Simms doesn't get hurt in 1990 he has 2 SBs too. Eli had 2 good runs, outside of that hasn't played well in postseason. Steve Young had all those things too and couldn't win like Aikman did, Aikman is underrated. Incredibly accurate passer.
I don't think Eli deserves to get in the HOF and don't think he was the best QB to play for the Giants. Fran Tarkenton was better, so was Y.A. Tittle. I think a case could be made that Phil Simms was better, even though he didn't have the pedigree or talent of Eli. I think Aikman and Bob Griese were very similar types of QBs. Both had weak arms and didn't win games for their teams. They were game managers who didn't get in the way, turn the ball over and cause problems. They executed the offense and did just enough to keep their teams winning consistently. Both their teams had great OLs, great RBs and very good to great Ds. They had great WRs to help them. I agree that both should be much lower down the list. I think their teams carried them rather than the opposite.
