Religion - a respectful discussion, for those interested

Here's what our President, Barack Obama, had to say about religion today. (And I'm a conservative Republican.)

"The church is and always has been the center of African-American life -- (applause) -- a place to call our own in a too often hostile world, a sanctuary from so many hardships.

Over the course of centuries, black churches served as "hush harbors" where slaves could worship in safety; praise houses where their free descendants could gather and shout hallelujah -- (applause) -- rest stops for the weary along the Underground Railroad; bunkers for the foot soldiers of the Civil Rights Movement. They have been, and continue to be, community centers where we organize for jobs and justice; places of scholarship and network; places where children are loved and fed and kept out of harm's way, and told that they are beautiful and smart -- (applause) -- and taught that they matter. (Applause.) That's what happens in church.

That's what the black church means. Our beating heart. The place where our dignity as a people is inviolate. When there's no better example of this tradition than Mother Emanuel -- (applause) -- a church built by blacks seeking liberty, burned to the ground because its founder sought to end slavery, only to rise up again, a Phoenix from these ashes. (Applause.)

When there were laws banning all-black church gatherings, services happened here anyway, in defiance of unjust laws. When there was a righteous movement to dismantle Jim Crow, Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. preached from its pulpit, and marches began from its steps. A sacred place, this church. Not just for blacks, not just for Christians, but for every American who cares about the steady expansion -- (applause) -- of human rights and human dignity in this country; a foundation stone for liberty and justice for all. That's what the church means. (Applause.)

We do not know whether the killer of Reverend Pinckney and eight others knew all of this history. But he surely sensed the meaning of his violent act. It was an act that drew on a long history of bombs and arson and shots fired at churches, not random, but as a means of control, a way to terrorize and oppress. (Applause.) An act that he imagined would incite fear and recrimination; violence and suspicion. An act that he presumed would deepen divisions that trace back to our nation's original sin.

Oh, but God works in mysterious ways. (Applause.) God has different ideas. (Applause.)

He didn't know he was being used by God. (Applause.) Blinded by hatred, the alleged killer could not see the grace surrounding Reverend Pinckney and that Bible study group -- the light of love that shone as they opened the church doors and invited a stranger to join in their prayer circle. The alleged killer could have never anticipated the way the families of the fallen would respond when they saw him in court -- in the midst of unspeakable grief, with words of forgiveness. He couldn't imagine that. (Applause.)

The alleged killer could not imagine how the city of Charleston, under the good and wise leadership of Mayor Riley -- (applause) -- how the state of South Carolina, how the United States of America would respond -- not merely with revulsion at his evil act, but with big-hearted generosity and, more importantly, with a thoughtful introspection and self-examination that we so rarely see in public life.

Blinded by hatred, he failed to comprehend what Reverend Pinckney so well understood -- the power of God's grace. (Applause.)

This whole week, I've been reflecting on this idea of grace. (Applause.) The grace of the families who lost loved ones. The grace that Reverend Pinckney would preach about in his sermons. The grace described in one of my favorite hymnals -- the one we all know: Amazing grace, how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me. (Applause.) I once was lost, but now I'm found; was blind but now I see. (Applause.)

According to the Christian tradition, grace is not earned. Grace is not merited. It's not something we deserve. Rather, grace is the free and benevolent favor of God -- (applause) -- as manifested in the salvation of sinners and the bestowal of blessings. Grace.

As a nation, out of this terrible tragedy, God has visited grace upon us, for he has allowed us to see where we've been blind. (Applause.) He has given us the chance, where we've been lost, to find our best selves. (Applause.) We may not have earned it, this grace, with our rancor and complacency, and short-sightedness and fear of each other -- but we got it all the same. He gave it to us anyway. He's once more given us grace. But it is up to us now to make the most of it, to receive it with gratitude, and to prove ourselves worthy of this gift."


http://www.vox.com/2015/6/26/8854855/read-full-text-obamas-eulogy-charleston-shooting

 

I posted this because he explains, so eloquently, the importance of Religion for Americans, throughout our history and today. We are a nation founded by our Religious faith, "One Nation Under God", "In God We Trust", these things are still part of our Nation's very fabric and even our currency!

The moral majority is alive and well, despite the immature shallow posts by a few people on here. Religion is so important to us as Americans, and to all of humanity. Except for the 5% of atheists out there. Just look at the statistics, roughly 9 out of 10 people worldwide believe in God.

"A sacred place, this church. Not just for blacks, not just for Christians, but for every American who cares about the steady expansion -- (applause) -- of human rights and human dignity in this country; a foundation stone for liberty and justice for all. That's what the church means. (Applause.)" - President Obama

 

First of all, the President was not "speaking for himself, as you claim, he was speaking about the United States, its people, the people of South Carolina, and the history of the United States. Did you even hear his speech, or read the transcript of it that I posted?

The founding fathers of the U.S. wanted all people to be free to worship as they choose, or not at all if they choose. They did not want to establish an official state religion. But they also did not want the free expression of religion to be restricted, as it sometimes is today. They wanted all religions to be able to freely, and publicly, profess their Faith. In other words, they wanted crosses and menorahs to be allowed in public places, along with any other articles of religion, as the people choose.

And if the founding fathers did not base the founding of the U.S. on religion, as you claim, then why are there references to God in the National Anthem and on U.S. currency? (don't forget too, the pilgrims came to America for religious freedom; that was the impetus for the founding of our country)

 

Prayer is now forbidden in public schools, for one.

Religious symbols cannot be displayed in public places.

...

 

You're right, after I posted that I realized my mistake....but I think it's still unlawful for a judge to put a cross on the wall in a courtroom, or for someone to hang a cross in a public place, like a public school.

Also, religious institutions are forced by the government to offer their employees services, like contraception and abortion-inducing drugs, that contradict their religious principles....the infamous HHS mandate. The Catholic Church has been fighting that in court, but as far as I know they have not won that battle, at least not yet.

 

What ruling are you talking about? (I think I know what you are referring to, but I want to make sure before I begin discussing it)

"Religious bigotry" lol .... the opposite is true! Again, I will refer to the speech by our President:

"It was an act that drew on a long history of bombs and arson and shots fired at churches, not random, but as a means of control, a way to terrorize and oppress. (Applause.) An act that he imagined would incite fear and recrimination; violence and suspicion. An act that he presumed would deepen divisions that trace back to our nation's original sin.

Oh, but God works in mysterious ways. (Applause.) God has different ideas. (Applause.)"
- President Obama


Those who want to control and oppress the population start by attacking churches, and trying to kill religion. Hitler, Stalin, Mao Tse Tung, and Kim Jong Il, for example, all sought to end religion so that they could kill freedom and control their populations. Religion has always protected the dignity, freedom, and basic human rights of people, that is the truth.