That small bit of bolded text proves your lack of humility. If I don't agree with you, I have somehow lost. Incredible. You come here with your proselytizing and expect all of us to believe that there is some universality to your version of truth. There is not. It is yours alone, as is your viewpoint. If you cannot acknowledge this, if you are egotistical enough that you believe that humans are incapable of forming their own viewpoint and their own truth without reading it from a centuries old book that has consistently been altered at the whim of your church's hierarchy, that is truly your loss.
You are arguing with someone who can't even decide if he likes a college QB until a draft guru tells him so. Until he read it in a magazine. It's typical for religious zealots that they can't form opinions for themselves, they need talking points from church elders who feed them the script every Sunday week after week year after year decade after decade so that the brainwashing allows the dogma to roll off their tongue freely. But it still sounds practiced and fake. Changing the story to keep up with science or culture or societal norms only makes it sound even more fraudulent. _
There is no such thing as "my version of the truth", or "your version of the truth". If I say that 2+2 = 7 and you say that 2+2 = 4, only one of us is correct. (see how humble and generous I am, I gave you the correct answer!) This idea of "relativism" is one of the great fallacies of our age. The stupid idea that there is no such thing as objective truth, that what's true for me might not be true for you, etc, it's a fantasy, it's not reality. The reality is that we live in a true/false world, the universe is the same for all of us who live in it, there's either a God or there isn't, the laws of nature are either true for all of us, or they are not. Gravity affects me in the exact same way that it affects you, or anyone else. So my idea with this thread is that it should be a common search for the Truth of our existence, the Truth of the universe that we all share. There's no place here for opinions, not everyone's views are going to be equally correct. But being humble means that you and I are open-minded enough to listen to all comments, consider them carefully, and then judge them according to their merits. .... oh that's another stupid modern fallacy, this ridiculous notion that we should be "non-judgemental". Tell that to the judge next time you find yourself in court....how can you tell me that's a crime, it's not for me, you're being so judgemental! lol. If I'm doing something wrong, something that is harmful to myself and/or others, I would expect a real friend to call me out on it, to bring to my attention the error of my ways. Only the most prideful, egotistical person would call that being "judgemental". A humble person would call it being helpful, being a good friend. And it's laughable that you claim that the Bible is "a centuries old book that has consistently been altered at the whim of your church's hierarchy"....the truth is that the Catholic Church is the only Christian organization that has preserved the Bible intact, while all of those Protestant denominations that came centuries later are the ones that have removed multiple books from the Bible and changed things to fit their founder's whims, like the King of England who broke from the Catholic Church just so he could get a divorce from his loyal wife and marry his young mistress. For the first 1000 years of Christianity, there was only the Catholic Church, and no Christian had any problems with it. It was only later when a few rebel wingnuts like Martin Luther and John Calvin decided to change things and break away, for mostly political reasons btw....none of them had any legitimate or defensible reasons for doing so. The Catholic Church is the only authentic Christian church because it's the one founded by Jesus Christ Himself and carried on by the Apostles and all Christians for 1000 years after that. The Catholic Church is the only authentic Christian Church that has remained unchanged through the centuries, despite the clamoring by modern overgrown adolescents who want a license to screw whoever they want like some horny adolescent, with no consequences.
The absolute truth that I believe is that no man came out of the ground three days after he died and was buried. I believe your version of the truth is different...and inexplicable.
this is an old one.. A nun hails a cab and gives him the address. While en route the nun can't help but notice that the cabbie keeps staring at her in the rearview mirror. The nun then asks him if there's anything wrong and the cabbie says: "omg Sister, I'm sorry, but I'd be too ashamed to tell you" whereupon the nun replied: "Son, you can obviously trust me...what's bothering you?" The cabbie confides to her that it was always his fantasy to kiss a nun. The nun meekly smiles and instructs him to pull over into an alley off a side street and from there lays the longest, hottest, deepest kiss on (and inside) the cabbie's mouth. After they were finished the guy starts weeping in shame and the nun again asks him what's wrong. Cabbie: "oh Sister, I'm not even Catholic.." Nun: "listen, it's ok, I'm not a nun either.....I'm just headed to a masquerade party down in the Village...btw, 'hi' my name's Kevin.."
Ralebird, not to be picayune but wasn't J.C. in a cave-like tomb where you had to "roll away the stone" to get to (vs. digging)? Anyway, back on-topic: Frank Perdue has this marketing brainstorm in his dreams and upon waking schedules a private audience with the Pope: "Pontiff, I'll donate $50 million dollars to the Church if you change the word 'bread' as in 'give us our daily bread' to 'chicken'. The Pope declines at which point Perdue ups the ante: "well how about $100 million Your Holiness??..." and again the Pope declines. Perdue thinks it over for a few seconds and says: "I'll tell you what....I'll make it $250 million dollars!!" The Pope mulls it over and tells him: "Hmmm, let me think about it. I'll get back to you tomorrow." The Pope then calls Cardinal O'Connor in New York: "Hey O'Connor, when does our contract with Wonder Bread run out?..."
I'm Catholic myself but this is the biggest bunch of bullshit I've seen. You should be ashamed of yourself.
"Indugences??...yeah, I'm good with that.." - M. Luther Ecclesiastical chauvinism is the currency of the insecure and simple-minded. What, is it only you and your religious ilk who are on a "first-name-basis" with God? You want some 'truth' Truth? ....here it is in a nutshell: Whoever we are Wherever we're from We shoulda noticed by now Our behavior is dumb And if our chances Expect to improve It's gonna take a lot more Than tryin' to remove The other race Or the other whatever From the face Of the planet altogether They call it THE EARTH Which is a dumb kinda name But they named it right 'Cause we behave the same... We are dumb all over Dumb all over, Yes we are Dumb all over, Near'n far Dumb all over Black 'n white People, we is not wrapped tight Nurds on the left Nurds on the right RELIGIOUS FANATICS On the air every night Sayin' the Bible Tells the story Makes the details Sound real gory 'Bout what to do If the geeks over there Don't believe in the book We got over here You can't run a race Without no feet 'N pretty soon There won't be no street For dummies to jog on Or doggies to dog on RELIGIOUS FANATICS Can make it be all gone (I mean it won't blow up 'N disappear It'll just look ugly For a thousand years...) You can't run a country By a book of religion Not by a heap Or a lump or a smidgeon Of foolish rules Of ancient date Designed to make You all feel great While you fold, spindle And mutilate Those unbelievers From a neighboring state TO ARMS! TO ARMS! Hooray! That's great Two legs ain't bad Unless there's a crate They ship the parts To mama in For souvenirs: two ears (Get down!) Not his, not hers (but what the hey?) The Good Book says: "It's gotta be that way!" But their book says: "REVENGE THE CRUSADES. . . With whips 'n chains 'N hand grenades. . ." TWO ARMS? TWO ARMS? Have another and another Our God says: "There ain't no other!" Our Cod says "It's all okay!" Our God says "This is the way!" It says in the book: "Burn 'n destroy. .. 'N repent, 'n redeem 'N revenge, 'n deploy 'N rumble thee forth To the land of the unbelieving scum on the other side 'Cause they don't go for what's in the book 'N that makes 'em BAD So verily we must choppeth them up And stompeth them down Or rent a nice French bomb To poof them out of existence While leaving their real estate just where we need it To use again For temples in which to praise OUR GOD ("Cause he can really take care of business!") And when his humble TV servant With humble white hair And humble glasses And a nice brown suit And maybe a blonde wife who takes phone calls Tells us our God says It's okay to do this stuff Then we gotta do it, 'Cause if we don't do it, We ain't gwine up to hebbin! (Depending on which book you're using at the time... Can't use theirs. . .it don't work . . .it's all lies...Gotta use mine...) Ain't that right? That's what they say Every night... Everyday. .. Hey, we can't really be dumb If we're just following God's Orders Hey, let's get serious... God knows what he's doin' He wrote this book here An'the book says: He made us all to be just like Him," so... If we're dumb... Then God is dumb... (An' maybe even a little ugly on the side)
Joe and Ralebird, please excuse my snottiness, but anyone who's watched Scooby Doo in the 70's knows that a spirit doesnt need a stone to be rolled away to get out, you guys need to tighten it up haa haa!
I used to have a serious addiction problem, and now I don't, and he's the one who did it. I used to be fearful and hopeless, and now I am not. I have a peace and joy independent of my circumstances which I never thought was possible. I still fall short and mess up, but I have the ultimate security in knowing that no matter how badly I mess up, God is faithful to his promises and by his grace looks at the perfect life of His son instead of at the ugliness of my sin, and I am covered by that. If you are looking for tangible evidence, there is the empty grave . It was common knowledge that he was crucified and he was buried in a known location. There has been no one over the last 2,000 years that can produce a body. If somebody is going to argue that his disciples stole the body, consider that Pilate had the equivalent of Navy Seals -- a squad of Roman soldiers with weapons -- guarding the tomb and his disciples were a bunch of fisherman and a tax collector. Even if they had gotten past the Seals, they would have had to contend with the large boulder / tomb stopper which sealed the entrance of the tomb. There were eyewitnesses who saw him after his resurrection and who testified to it. Ultimately, believing in Jesus takes faith. You are never going to get around that. The Bible declares as much, that without faith it is impossible to please God because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him. The thing is it takes more faith to believe in evolution than it does in a creator. Children are often closer to the truth than adults. If you tell a small child that God loves them, they accept it because instinctively they know it is true. If you tell a small child that they were once a monkey, they are going to say you are silly.
Yes, Jesus is alive. If you follow yourself and your own great wisdom, you will die in your own sins. You will have rejected the only acceptable sacrifice for your sins, and will have to answer for your own life. You can accept him as savior or you can continue to reject him and then face him as judge. There is no in between. You evidently have no interest in receiving him, so when you face him as judge you can try telling him that he never existed and see how that goes. You can tell him about all the great deeds you have done in your life "while nobody is watching". You can share those here if you like. I am sure everybody will be very impressed. The only reason I mentioned George Carlin was because I was responding to somebody who posted a quote of his. No matter what you have done in your life which you consider good and feel like patting yourself on the back for, your deeds are menstrual rags compared to the goodness and perfection of the God you so flippantly dismiss, the God who knows everything you've ever done and yet loved you enough to sacrifice his only son for. If God didn't exist, you wouldn't either. To this point you have been using the life and breath he gave you tell yourself and others that he isn't there. Yes, it is not clear what "optimize" means in the context of a life where you are a vapor destined to be food for worms. You can't define it because you yourself have no idea what you really mean. Your life is rudderless and meaningless except apparently to try and crusade against a being you claim doesn't exist. By the way, I have heard that "morality is what you do when nobody else is watching" line before. It is a common saying which you adopted after hearing it from somebody else. If you are going to bash somebody else for "blindly" following what others have said and done, you could at least come up with something original. If I believed what you claim to believe -- that God is imaginary -- I wouldn't be on a message board wasting the precious remaining hours of my life arguing with somebody I've never met and have no stake in helping or hurting. I would be somewhere else doing something pleasurable. But maybe you have already tried that and found it doesn't work.
God's love is real. It is not some abstract philosophical entity that you have to disentangle from some scientific theory. He is not some taskmaster / "camera lens in the sky" (quoting what somebody else posted, not you) just looking for ways to condemn us. It is the opposite, actually. If he only wanted to condemn us, he wouldn't have had to send his son into the world. He sent Jesus because he wanted to forgive us and have that relationship with us restored. God's love is the highest form of love. It is the love of a father for a son. It is something like this He sent Jesus to come alongside us and walk with us through whatever we go through in life, no matter how bad it might get. He dwelt among us. The son of heaven was willing to become the son of Joseph, the son of a carpenter. Nobody can ever blame God for being distant or unwilling to get his hands dirty. Nobody has to think "God can't possibly understand what I'm going through." The worst things we can go through in life he experienced firsthand. He endured hunger and thirst; at the most difficult time in his life, he was betrayed by one of those in his inner circle, he was denied by another, he was shamefully treated, spit on, mocked and scoffed at, was tortured to death publicly, being led to die a criminal's death even though he had done nothing wrong. He did not do this in vain, but for us. He wanted to be able to fully identify with us and in doing so he had to see it through to the end in order to make a way for our redemption. There is no longer anything that anybody can go through in life that God cannot identify with.
I have many friends that had serious addiction problems, now many don't, only one or two of them turned to religion, most did not. It is all about what one chooses to believe in, not everyone needs nor wants religion. As far as the guard at the tomb, many clues indicate it may have been a Jewish guard rather than Roman and a sleeping or bribed guard is very easy to get around.
That's your idea of proof? I'm old enough to know something of the real bona fide al toon. You are severely not worthy of using his name.
It's not "my version of the truth"....I wasn't there, I didn't witness it. But many people did, and Jesus lived among his disciples for 40 days after the Resurrection...this was witnessed by many people. I doubt the Bible would be the best-selling book of all-time, and billions of people would believe the Resurrection actually did happen, for 2000 years after the fact, if it was not true. I guess I have more respect for my fellow man than you do. I doubt all of those billions of people throughout history have been gullible fools....some of them might not have been too smart, but many of them were, including thousands of very highly educated people with Ph.D's and other degrees. I doubt all of those people would be gullible enough to believe a hoax. Not to mention all the martyrs throughout history who died for it. Yes it's hard to believe on the surface, but there have been lots of unbelievable events throughout history, what some call miracles and others just amazing occurrences. There have been many events throughout history that science cannot explain.
FYI, the Protestant Reformation did not occur until the 16th century. That's the 1500's. Prior to that, the only Christian Church in existence was the Catholic Church. So I was wrong, all Christians were in fact Catholic for about the first 1500 years of Christianity, not the first 1000 years as I stated before. "The Protestant Reformation was the 16th-century religious, political, intellectual and cultural upheaval that splintered Catholic Europe..." http://www.history.com/topics/reformation ....again, as they say, to understand history is to cease to be Protestant.
So why did you say it was "bullshit" for me to say that for the first 1000 years all Christians were Catholics? I just posted a link to a history.com article on the Reformation that shows that my statement was correct, actually closer to 1500 years until anyone challenged the authenticity of the Catholic Church.
THE TWELVE STEPS OF ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS 1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become unmanageable. 2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity. 3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him. 4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves. 5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs. 6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character. 7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings. 8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all. 9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others. 10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it. 11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God, as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out. 12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these Steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs. http://www.aa.org/pages/en_US/what-is-aa So even Alcoholics Anonymous, a secular, non-religious organization recognizes how crucial religion and spirituality are for the human person, especially those in a treatment program for an addiction. Narcotics anonymous also uses those same 12 steps. BTW, someone said earlier that "God gives you an addiction then takes it away?"....actually we cause our own addictions when we freely choose to ignore God's teachings, His commandments which are for our own good. When we fail in the virtue of temperance, give in to temptations, that's when we fall prey to addictions and lose our freedom. When we avoid sin we are free to be the person we want to be, because we avoid getting caught in wasteful and self-destructive addictions. Medical professionals in treatment programs understand all of this.
