Four games! You get four freaking games and if you're not ready to be ensconced in the Hall of Fame you suck for all eternity. Next question!
I totally get the concerns people have about throwing Petty in there, and it may prove to be a mistake to have let Simms go. Why would I say that? Because to be clear we don't know taht between Smith and Fitz we will see competent Qb play from either/both of them. We have to have some concerns that Fitz will be hampered by his leg. That may be why the OC is talking up Smith. At least that question should be cleared up as camp and pre-season progress, but it's a concern. Worst case is the nightmare scenario - the D is awesome, we're all thrilled with the new HC's work with them. The OL takes some sorting out, but looks good enough. The running game is competent, but opponents line up to stop it. Meanwhile teh Qb position takes the Jets out of chances to win games. What should be a playoff team by week six is down in the standings. Petty then plays? That's counter to what many think is best for his development. It would smack of desperation at the possible expense of the long term. But it might happen...
i didnt "think" we had as a good a running game. the results show us it did: cowboys: 508 attempts jets: 507 attempts cowboys: 2354 yards jets : 2280 yards cowboys: 4.6 yards per carry jets: 4.5 yards per carry cowboys: 147.1 YPG Jets: 142.5 YPG cowboys: 16 TD jets: 12 TD cowboys: Long 65 yards jets: long 71 yards cowboys: 106 first downs jets: 112 first downs cowboys: 10 fumbles, 6 lost jets: 11 fumbles, 5 lost Thats nearly identical output, on nearly identical attemps, with nearly identical success per attempt.
Statistics w/out context. Great job. DeMarco Murray was more effective then all 3 of our RBs combined last season. Again, go back and look at the Cowboys in December, where Murray was getting nearly 40 touches a game (carries and receptions - which should not be forgotten) and was moving the chains and keeping the ball out of Romo's hands (hence avoiding turnovers). That led to more wins. The Jets running game did not accomplish this same feat. You providing stats did absolutely nothing for your argument in terms of running back productivity. May God have mercy on your soul. I took that part from Billy Madison.
No, as a matter of fact, he was NOT. he was equally as effective as our group of backs combined, as i showed by the numbers Murray was good in december. so where the jets. here are the jets runningbacks game by game in december, i really dont see how the jets werent as good or better in december though: 12/1 vs Miami: 49 carries 277 yards | (2 catches, 19 yards) | TD 12/7 @ minny: 42 carries 168 yards | (3 catches, 17 yards) | 0 TD 12/14 @ titans: 29 carries 114 yards | (4 catches, 20 yards) | 2 TD 12/21 v. Pats: 32 carries 116 yards |(4 catches, 42 yards) | 0 TD 12/28 @miami: 34 carries 104 yards | 1 catch, 8 yards) | 2 TD Total(5 Games): 186 Carries, 779 Yards, 5 TD | 14 catches, 106 Yards | 5 TDs 4.2 Yards per carry 155 rushing Yards Per game 7.5 Yards per catch 21 Receiving yards per game Murray for comparison... 12/4 @ chicago: 32 carries 179 yards | (9 catches, 49 yards) | TD 12/14 @ philly: 33 carries 81 yads | (1 catch, 3 yards) | 2 TD 12/21 v. Indy: 22 carries 58 yards | (0 catches, 0 yards) | TD 12/28 2 washington: 20 carries 100 yards | (3 catches, 21 yards) | TD Total(4 Games): 105 Carries 338 yards | 13 Catches, 55 yards | 5 TDs 3.2 Yards per carry 84.5 rushing yards per game 4.2 yards per catch 13.8 receiving yards per game I dont see how murry was more productive, you also pointed out murray's pass catching, but even there he didnt outproduce jet running backs during that period. the jets running game can not work miracles. they didnt have romo at QB, dez at WR, and a defense/special teams as good as the cowboys or the cowboys line. The jets had a dog crap QB and passing game and a pretty bad defense and an even worse special teams. Saying the jets running game wasnt as effective as the cowboys running game because of win totals is pretty bad way to measure it. Flat out, the cowboys are a better team. The jets were not a good team. if you put the jets running back group in place of murray im not sure their december record changes. that is also speculation of course. i also dont think if you put murray on the jets their 2-3 december record changes much/at all. but again that is speculation, although i still contend it is unfair to use wins to determine murray was much more productive then the jets group either for the year or in december I really dont get your looking down upon me in this argument. i could understand if i came in here like some immature brat saying "jets guys are better, murrary sucks" and then posting some .gif or meme or something. but that is hardly the case. Everything i have said i have backed up with evidence. i have refuted all your coutner points with further evidence (see above, regarding your point about how the teams rushed the football in december, and murrays works receiving the ball). other then the cowboys win total in december, you have not provided much to support your strong claims (that murray outproduced all jet backs combined). You scoff at my stats as not having context. then i provide the context you outlined. you dont provide stats or context, just an opinion and a narrative. that seems a bit hippocritical. id ask you take an objective look before just bashing blindly bashing me. the number support it both situationally and in total
I watched every Cowboy game last year, Murray's impact was great. Cowboys in December, they normally choke - but they gave the ball to Murray and look at the success they had. They always had Dez and Romo. That doesn't explain why they went 8-8 the season before with a losing record in December (1-3). That again was due to Murray getting the ball constantly, see the correlation, see where I am going with this? I see no situation awareness of how those stats were accumulated, that rushing play that leads to a crucial first down or a catch that breaks the game open [evident by Murray's 10 receptions or so against the Bears]. No RB on our team was as talented as Murray and didn't have nearly the effect of Murray. You can keep posting those #s all you want, but dude you are dead-ass wrong because you ignore the situation context. In December, Murray was that team's MVP. Hell you could argue he should've been MVP of the league last season. The Jets running game was not as good as the Cowboys running game - the #s don't tell the entire story. It is not unfair, it is merely the truth. No RB on our roster could do what Murray did last yr. You already provided the stats for me, I don't need to post them to make a point here. If you put Murray on the Jets last year, and give him that many touches, I bet Geno Smith doesn't turn the football over as much, a dependable 3 down back that can pass-protect, catch and get carries. We prob have a better record also. BTW, the Jets were not as good as the Cowboys in December - IDK where you got this idea.
The cowboys had Murray the past 4 seasons. its not like he just joined the team last year. he was a part of the same failure the rest of the team was the prior years. Dez has only been a cowboy 1 season longer then murray has. Murray was on the 8-8 cowboys team the prior year. and he had a very good december during the cowboys 1-3 month that year. and exactly what situation context are you providing? i have yet to see you point to those instances in games where murray was great and the jets backs faltered in similar scenarios. you make it sound like the jets got all their yards and production in 3rd quarter of blowout games they trailed by 50 where every murrary touchdown was a game winner. could not be further from the truth. you want some context? take your december month... 1) ivory had a game winning TD against the titans 2) in the vikings game down by 3 the jets converted f3 times rushing the ball for first downs(twice on third down), including a powell run that set up the FG that sent the game to overtime. 3) the dolphins game, we ran for 277 yards in a game where geno couldnt do anything, keeping us in the game giving us several chances to steal it 4) vs the pats, down 17-10 in the 4th jets backs combined for 58 total yards on a drive that led to a FG making it a one score game. after the jets D got us great field position, the jets rushed twice setting up a makeable FG attempt for a potential game winner before geno took a 10 yard sack. as far as murray... I never once said the jets backs were as talented as murray. they arent, not close. but thats my point, you can get similar production from several guys on a cheaper investment instead of paying big money for the more talented player. (further its better to invest in offensive line in regards to the running game). Dallas seemed to be fine letting murray walk, thinking his production could be replaced, so the notion shouldnt be that crazy to you. What context am I ignoring. you havent provided any for me to ignore, and any period or situation i have addressed. you have yet to provide and situational context to backup your assertation that the stats are lying or are decieving. the numbers i posted, both in total and situationally both refute your point. if you have situtional areas you'd like me to address, or any specific context which support murray or hurts the jets id love to hear it. I'd argue Dez was the teams MVP, and that he was better in december. it is certainly close. and are we really saying murray was better then aaron rodgers last season? come on now. That is a pretty giant cop out. the numbers dont support you, so you just say you dont neeed to post them to make a point. what point would you be making with them other then that your wrong? Saying murray here makes geno turn it over less is kind of giant speculation. esepcially since the jets run game produce just as much as murray/the cowboys run game did. did sanchez turn it over less with Shady mccoy there? He threw 1.2 picks a game his last season with the jets, and 1.2 picks a game last year with philly(despite much better wide outs). you could just as easily speculate that the jets group in dallas would have the same success and the cowboys would have won just as much. i never said the jets were as good as the cowboys in december. i said the jets running game/combo of backs was as good as murray was in december. which i showed pretty clearly.
We are specifically talking about last season, in which Murray's role was expanded. Jets running game was not as good as the Cowboys running game. You mentioned 4 plays, 4 plays in 4 different games - we could prob find 4 plays Murray did in each game that was huge to the team. Jets running game did not have as much impact as the Cowboys running game. Cowboys running game was better - Murray was just as productive if not more then all 3 of our RBs. We already know you don't like RBs and you already said you wouldn't draft one if it were guaranteed 15 straight 1000 yard seasons. I just can't put much stock into your post here about RBs. This argument isn't going anywhere, and I really don't see any validity to your statements, to say the Jets running game was as good as the Cowboys is insane IMO.
Imo in comparing the Jets' running game to Dallas's, I don't know why 101 does not address the variable that Dallas opponents had much more to worry about from their passing game than did Jet opponents. I think as a basic principle everyone here would acknowledge that a defense afraid of the pass will be less able to defend the run, less effective in stopping the run. Why does that not factor into the comparative analysis?
You are yet to post anything to backup this claim. or to refute the statistics that show that it was as good as the cowboys running game. - I gave you stats, you said the total stats were not enough, and referenced Murray's december. - I gave stats showing the jets backs were as good/better then murray in december, then you said that was also no good because it lacked "context" -I then added context to those december games, showing that the jets running backs did come through in big situations. now that isnt enough either, because you could "probably" find plays where murray did that as well. This is really a giant cop out. You claim murray was much better, yet none of the stats support it. you say you "dont need to post stats" and that its situational, yet you provide no situational context of your own. further, murray also having 4 or 5 big plays to help win games still just matches what the jets backs did. I'm not sure what you object to. I use facts, stats, and evidence to support everything i've said. I've also presented the facts on specific timeframes and given situational context when you said that mattered more. You have given NOTHING other then your opinion with 0 to back it up to validate that murrary was more productive then all of the jets quarterbacks combined. Again, you are arguing facts with your own opinion. you provide no examples stats or facts to backup your claim, ive refuted several of your claims with facts. all you have to backup your opinion is that you "could probably find" some situational context where murray's yards were more impactful. your argument is basically the jets productions was empty and irrelevant and murrays stats were super impactful. yet you provide nothing to back that up, then scoff when i provided several contextual examples of the jets backs production having high impact. It is a statement of fact that the jets running game was just as productive as the cowboys.
An obvious point, one i didnt mention because even without factoring that in the jets run game was just as productive. when you factor that in, it really shows extreme bias to say that the dallas run game was much better, and that thinking otherwise is crazy. any intelligent unbiased observer could come away with, at the very least, dallas run game was only margially better. regardless of how that person chooses to measure production and impact
OK, you obviously aren't seeing the point here. No, it wasn't. That in itself is not a fact. Murray himself was able to sustain many drives for the Cowboys. He rushed for 100 or more yards in 13 of 18 games, including eight in a row to open the season. He carried the ball more than 400 times and added another 57 catches. Let me ask you something, how many catches did our RBs have? Total yards from scrimmage is a running back stat that you seemed to forget to calculate. If you watched the games and observed as Murray continuously helped extend drives, while the Jets running game had not. Not only did the Cowboys running game score more TDs and generate more yards from the LOS, they helped the team have a +12 in % of drives ending in a score. We will continue to disagree here, and I believe despite you posting stats, you still miss the context of the RB position and it's responsibilities, but I will teach you what you need to know here. 1 man on the Cowboys you could argue did more then 3 running backs on the Jets - that includes catching, blocking and running. Jets had 2041 total yards from scrimmage; Murray HIMSELF had 2200 yards from scrimmage and you can tack on like 600 more yards from Randle and Dunbar. Running game isn't just about running the football, but the entire responsibility of that unit. Give me Murray over all 3 of our RBs from last year combined. 2014 Cowboys RG > Jets 2014 RG. To be honest, I don't buy anything you said, and you've lacked validity in the past.
BTW, I checked these #s and they are fucking wrong - you included receivers and QBs in your total yards [as I can see from pro football reference from which you got the team total from], our RBs combined for 8 rushing TDs [11 w/ receiving TDs accounted for]. I won't even check the rest, damn shame you had to skew stats to try and make your argument look good. I never included receivers / TEs or QBs in my calculations.
-The jets group of backs also rushed for 100 yards 14 times in 18 games last year(Devner and SD only games they did not). -The jets group of backs also carried it 400 times -the jets group of backs combined for 53 Catches I ahve included catches and total yards already. Both for the season and for december. in addition to the jets running game matching the production of murray/the cowboys the jets trio of backs also matches murrays recieving output. Murray: 57 catches, 416 yards, 0 recieving TDs Jets backs: 55 catches, 401 yards, 3 receiving TDs This is the issue... you keep making statements, but dont support it with facts. You praise Murray but then dont acknowledge that the jets backs as a group did those exact same things. You say "total yards matter!" then i show jets total yards matched Murrays. you say recieving counts and then ask what the jets backs combined for... which i have again showed you pretty much matches what murray put up. You ask for context, I gave it to you. and now your response is unsubstantiated claims. That is beyond hypocritical. If you are going to demand context, then you need to include it yourself. The jets running game absolutely help extend drives. They had more first downs then the cowboys running game and had(112 to 106). Please post the context on this... show me the situations in which the jets succeeded/failed to extend drives with the run vs. the the cowboys/murray in those same situations. Also, tje Cowboys running game did not generate many more TDs then the jets backs. The cowboys running backshad 16 rushing touchdowns (13 for murrary) and 0 recieving touchdowns. The jets had 11 Rushing touchdowns. the jets backs had 11 rushing touchdowns and 3 reciving touchdowns. 16 for dallas 14 for the jets. not much of a difference there. as far as drives ending in a score, that number has alot to do with Romo's 34 touchdowns and bryants 15 touchdowns. the jets did not have a passing game like dallas did. from strictly a rushing perspective, the jets running game matched dallas production in every facets. yards, yards per attempt, first downs, first down percentage, scoring, receptions, yards per rectpion, I'm stating facts, if you dont buy what I am saying, then you are debating fact. and you are doing it with really nothing to backup your claims. You keep saying murrary was more productive then all our backs combined. which simply is factually false. it is also false situationally, and while you claim contextually its true, are yet to provide concrete examples or anything to substantiate that. I have provide contextual examples, which you seem to just disregard completely. You are being very thick headed here. There is simply nothing that is going to change your mind, and you refuse to look at the facts and make an unbiased judgement as you have a preconceived notion that everydown top end backs have to be better then a group where the sum of all thier parts is capable of producing the same output. It is a fact the jets backs matched the production of murray. and they did so without the advantage of having an elite passing game to take focus off of the running game
Everything I have discussed was from watching the games and using stats to back up my argument, IDK what you are doing, but it appears you want to debate just for the heck of it, I still see no validity to your argument, so I am moving on. I suggest you go back and watch the Cowboys games and compare them to the Jets games and I think you will see a clearer picture. Observe how Murray extended drives throughout the yr. All of my numbers, I got from the same website as yourself. As I said, Murray extended plenty of drives. I can't tell you to watch the games, you will need to do that yourself. Give me Murray and the 2014 dallas running game over the 2014 NYJ running game any-day of the week. Go back watch the Chicago game, watch Murray get 10 catches and extend plenty of drives on 3rd down. There is no issue w/ my argument, there is nothing you can tell me that suggests the Jets RG was better, I saw all of the stats, I saw all of the games. I am moving on w/ this conversation as we are now so out of topic.
I agree. I think on balance 101 is a good poster here, but he has his moments when he just won't acknowledge logic.
I included all rushing stats for the jets, and all rushing stats for the cowboys. as that is what const First off, please stop acting childish and cursing at me. I have been nothing but civil with you, yet you continue to berate and not curse at me. If you want to disagree thats one thing, but has some respect. 1) my stats are not incorrect and they are not from PFR, they are from yahoo: We had 11 rushing touchdowns: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/stats/b...ort=39&old_category=Rushing&old_group=Offense My stats included all rushes for both teams. that includes the 500+ rushing yards and 3 TDS from Dunbar/randle/Romo just as for the jets it includes the yards for Harvin, Geno, and Kerley. If you want to include the jets trio of HBs vs. Murray specifically, not much changes. Murray had a couple hundred yards more then the jets trio in slightly more carries/catches, and 2 more total touchdowns 2) I never skewed anything. i stated from the beginning the jets running game matched the production of dallas running game, which they did. The only person skewing anything is you trying to muddy the waters here because the facts arent inline with your preconceived notions. If you want to say harvins stats dont count because he is a WR, even though at times he lined up at running back, you should have stated that. the jets use many things to suppliment the run... which was my exact point, that you can use many different parts and match the output of a team with a top running back. I find it pretty ridiculous that you keep painting me as some troll who rants when I provide evidence to backup my points which are well thought out, especially when you are cursing and using foul language despite me being extremely respectful of your opinions
