Jaguars Promote John Idzik

Discussion in 'National Football League' started by LongIslandBlitz, May 29, 2015.

  1. pclfan

    pclfan Well-Known Member

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    So where are these facts. From Sportac. Clearing the cap space was a big job and not simple. You talk like you could do it.
     
  2. JetBlue

    JetBlue Well-Known Member

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    I could have done it if my goal was to reduce the cap. All you need to know is what is the cap hit across the remaining years of the contract if the player is cut. If the cap hit is minimal you cut the player if that is your strategy.

    The most important element of this process is your goal. If it's to clear cap space or to keep a player.

    You keep arguing it's complicated but have not once stated any part of the process that is complicated.

    Try Validating your argument. But disputing my argument isn't validation of your argument, nevertheless not even validating your disputes of my argument.

    If your position is so sound it would be easy to validate it, even anecdotally.
     
    RexontheBeach likes this.
  3. pclfan

    pclfan Well-Known Member

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    To me Idzik did a lot more with his top draft picks. And that includes Milliner who has a good chance to be very good. Of course Idzik was blamed when a couple of his picks were injured as if it was his fault. Yet Caldwell's top pick this year, Fowler is already out for the season after only one practice. If that had been Idzik here he'd had been crucified. Looks like Caldwell made the right choice. If here with this owner and fan base he'd have been fired, too. Caldwell knew what he was doing.
     
    #83 pclfan, Jun 1, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2015
  4. pclfan

    pclfan Well-Known Member

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    Because I don't know the machinations and the paperwork and accounting principles involved in creating cap space restructuring contracts and cutting players. Believe me you couldn't do it. Me either.
     
  5. JetBlue

    JetBlue Well-Known Member

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    The technical process of how the paperwork has to be formatted or submitted is irrelevant. Nobody is arguing that there isn't a specific process and format to that we aren't aware of.

    And restructuring contracts is irrelevant as well, because the cap space created by Idzik was accomplished by cutting players, not shrewdly restructuring the deals and pushing money into other years.

    The discussion is about the specific and factual scenario in which Idzik cut players based on the cap savings that were in place in the contracts he inherited. All he had to do was make the decision to execute what was permissible from contracts he did not create.

    Idzik made the decision to cut them.
     
  6. pclfan

    pclfan Well-Known Member

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    Even if you were a CPA and have a law degree you aren't going to walk into an NFL front office and know what you're doing. There's a learning curve involved in this and most NFL front offices have in addition to GMs who have some knowledge of policies, administrative procedures etc. their own legal and accounting staffs. Idzik had twenty years experience with 3 different NFL teams who didn't think he was a moron or ever fire him. He did a great job freeing cap money. He did a fair job in personnel and the draft. He did a terrible job in terms of PR, communications etc. If you're in New York you have know how to do this. You're not in a vacuum and have to communicate esp with the press. Some reports I heard said he wouldn't even return phone calls to reporters. Of course some of them were trashing him but still an important part of the job. As for Caldwell: if you saw him recently during the draft on ESPN. He was personable and funny. They did a segment with him outside and inside the Jags war room. In the background in the Jags war room you could see Idzik. First time I've seen the guy since he was fired. Plus he's never talked about it. He gave the press nothing even at the end (an 18 word statement that was robotic).
     
    #86 pclfan, Jun 2, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2015
  7. jcass10

    jcass10 Well-Known Member

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    Well lets go about this one other way.

    Which players did Idzik cut, that we werent clamoring for him to cut beforehand. Did he make any good cost cutting moves that were a surprise to the fan base?
     
  8. pclfan

    pclfan Well-Known Member

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    You'd have to look over all the personnel moves when he took over, players cut, contracts restructured, new players signed and the deals they received and trades. Were they good deals and were the economics of these transactions smart. It's hard to say because we don't know everything about the contracts and don't have the experience needed to properly evaluate and compare. We as laymen can make a guess and also follow news reports etc. The bottom line is: he took over a team with major cap issues and bad contracts and got the team out of the red. If you refuse to give him any credit and say even you could have done it, fine with me. I'm not going to preach to you on who to hate or not to hate. PS btw one example is that he cut Calvin Pace and then re-signed him which was a good cost cutting move.
     
    #88 pclfan, Jun 2, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2015
  9. JetBlue

    JetBlue Well-Known Member

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    No, he took over a team with contracts that were in place that put him in excellent cap position in his second year if he chose to release the players whose guaranteed money was next to nothing.

    Idzik did not create that scenario he simply implemented an option that he inherited. You are confusing giving him credit for choosing that option with the idea that he made those options possible.
     
  10. pclfan

    pclfan Well-Known Member

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    Again you don't have knowledge of every Jets transaction and the intricacies of contracts he dealt with. You're shooting from the hip and basing your statements on internet info which is sketchy. At least I admit I don't know what I'm talking about.
     
  11. JetBlue

    JetBlue Well-Known Member

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    No, you are arguing because you don't know that everyone else doesn't know. Take responsibility for your own ignorance, don't project it into others.
     
  12. pclfan

    pclfan Well-Known Member

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    I said I'm ignorant of cap policies, procedures etc. And so are you. Unless you were a fly on the wall at Florham Park and have worked in the NFL in the business end. Do you actually know what was involved in cutting Mark Sanchez. In terms of his contract, money owed, negotiations with his agent, league dates, etc. It's not easy stuff. But you say anyone could have done it.
     
  13. CJLang

    CJLang Well-Known Member

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    Idzik foolishly went into the job thinking it was a long term project. It's New York, there is no such thing as long term. Nobody really knows whether he would have made good moves with the space saved or not.

    Idzik was never plan A or even B for the Jets. He got the job after many looked at the task at hand (and having to keep the coach whether they wanted to or not) and wanted no part of it.

    One thing we do know after the dirty work was done, the job was alot more appealing this year with all the cap space available, and the opportunity to help hire the head coach.
     
  14. JetBlue

    JetBlue Well-Known Member

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    you don't have to negotiate a cut, the terms of the contract are all you have to adhere to.

    the technical details of dates and timing are irrelevant to the argument. nobody is claiming Idzik isn't an intelligent person who is well schooled in the technical knowledge of the NFL. That has nothing to do with the strategic decision to cut a player based on the terms of his contract -- which are publicly known.

    you aren't even smart enough to understand the criticisms you are trying to dispute, so don't tell other people what they are smart enough to know and understand.
     
  15. pclfan

    pclfan Well-Known Member

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    I'll let it go at that because you have no facts and don't know what you're talking about. Go back to Fantasy Football if you want to run a team.
     
  16. JStokes

    JStokes Well-Known Member

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    Ouch. :D

    _
     
  17. JetBlue

    JetBlue Well-Known Member

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    you'll let it go because you've argued nothing except that you don't have facts, not that anyone else doesn't.
     
  18. pclfan

    pclfan Well-Known Member

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    OK so where's your facts. And I don't want to see any internet blog crap.
     
  19. tank75

    tank75 Well-Known Member

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    What facts are you even looking for? Deciding to cut a player with no guaranteed money left on his contract requires none of what you are talking about
     
  20. pclfan

    pclfan Well-Known Member

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    The biggest contract he terminated was the Sanchez contract. And there was money left on it. And a lot of it. Plus who knows what else in his contract. But you say anybody could have done it. Plus the others. Where's the info on each contract he dealt with to create the cap space. Basically you really need the actual contract. Do you have that or are you getting all of your info from the internet. Please stop playing amateur GM. The professionals are bad enough.
     

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