So he turns around to head back to the house and falls in the snow, breaking his leg and freezes to death because he didn't go to church with his wife even though he was a good enough person to try to help some birds in the middle of a dark and stormy night. The end.
The more you write, the more I believe you are not really proselytizing to others any longer but are having some kind of "crisis of faith" and are trying to convince yourself that there is some substance to your beliefs.
Call me old-fashioned but, 4 dashes of Angostura Bitters 1 tsp sugar 1 orange wheel (for garnish) 1 Maraschino cherry 1 splash of club soda 2 oz. bourbon In an Old Fashioned glass, muddle the bitters, sugar, orange wheel, cherry and a splash of soda Remove the orange rind, add the bourbon and fill with ice Garnish with a fresh orange wheel and cherry Beats Communion wine everytime…and twice on Sundays.
No, the reality is that I want to share this treasure I have with others. My Catholic Faith has helped me so much in my life, and has enhanced every aspect of my life immeasurably, that I feel bad for those still living in the dark, as I once was. I am trying to help as many people by sharing the common Truth of our existence, and what God intended for all of mankind. That's why He told the Apostles to "spread the good news to all the earth." The Gospel of Jesus Christ is meant for all people, regardless of race, nationality, country, culture, etc. That's why it's called the "Catholic" Church; the word Catholic means Universal. It is God's revelation for all mankind. It is meant to be shared. That's why I do what I do.
I wasn't talking about science, I was explaining how important and life-enhancing my Catholic Faith has been for me. And I'm hardly alone in this; countless others for the past 2000 years have found peace, joy, and fulfillment in the Catholic Church. There are over 2 billion Catholics in the world today, in every continent on earth. It is truly worldwide and universal. ...as for science, my point earlier in this thread was simply that the universe could not have created itself. Prior to the Big Bang, there was no time, space, matter, or energy. There was literally nothing prior to that. And neither science nor common sense can explain how something can come about from nothing. Science will never be able to explain that, for obvious reasons. To try to do so would be to violate the most basic laws of science upon which all of science hinges. Therefore, the only conclusion is that there must have been a supernatural cause for the origin of the universe, or put another way, a first cause which lies outside the domain of science.
You must have been one of the "twice a year Catholics", a "Catholic" really in name only, who rarely attended Mass or any of the other Sacraments, and who was almost completely disengaged. Those are the "Catholics" who do all of the complaining. Those who actually participate in the Church on a consistent basis are the ones who benefit from it. You get out what you put in.
So let's talk Adam and Eve. God created them in his image, and they begat all the rest of us right? How does that fit in with what science has shown us about the origin of humanity and life? *Edited to add "in his image"
I was brought up Catholic. Was an Altar Boy back when Mass was said in Latin and Fish on Friday was the law. As it turns out, It provided a great framework for what I believe in and how I live however, I don't have any use for established religion any more. I believe that we all must establish an relationship with God and all paths lead there. There is only one God and humans can give any name they choose or follow any path as long as they feel the relationship. The 3 major religions were in competition for followers centuries ago and as such, promoted their version of "The Word" as the only true version. I have serious doubts that God sat down with any individual and dictated his wishes. Add to that the human tendency to spin and you wind up with every religion presently on earth claiming some direct line to the Almighty. I don't believe "The Bible" is the direct word of God because Man wrote it and Man is flawed. There is good to be gained from reading it and if you view the Bible as a historical record, it makes much more sense. The Old Testament was a very violent period in human history. God gave us free will. To me, that means God wants us to figure it out as we go. I also don't believe God bet the universal house on the humans on this planet either. There are too many "earths" in the billions upon billions of galaxies out there. There is a process to life and evolution and I think God made life possible in many different forms and in many different location. Just look at our own planet's variety of lifeforms as a template. Yes, I believe in a Supreme Being. I think this Being is the end result of Evolution going back billions of years before the dawn of the Milky Way Galaxy. Humanity is but one of the many faces of God. I will say this. Those uber Christians that praise God on Sunday, protest in front of Mosques on Monday and hate everyone that doesn't look like them the rest of the time had better hope that God doesn't send Jesus back any time soon or come personally to Earth. If that does happen, I have a feeling instead of rejoicing, there's gonna be a lot of ass kicking going on and those "christians" will be judged harshly.
Sounds like you have a pretty piss poor opinion about most Catholics. I wish I could say I was surprised. Be careful, bro. One of these days you're going to break your neck rigorously nodding your head in agreement with yourself. And for our Jewish friends on board, please accept my apologies. Many, perhaps even most, Christians aren't presumptuous assholes. And for our muslim posters, well, life sucks for you anyway, my sympathy isn't worth anything anyhow.
Some need more than "Because god wants it that way" from a nun or priest, they need practice of what is being preached and find far too little of it. You "hook, line and sinker" guys are what keep the machine running.
That's the kind of thing that people who don't understand the Catholic Church say. If you really understood what the Catholic Church is all about, and what it really teaches, and the basis behind those teachings, you wouldn't say those things. And you would be a practicing Catholic yourself. My suggestion: watch EWTN. Especially the program "The Journey Home" with Marcus Grodi. He's a former Protestant who came home to the Catholic Church, and he hosts different people each week who converted to Catholicism from various backgrounds. These conversion stories (and "reversion" stories, those fallen away Catholics who have returned) depict the real life stories of countless people who have found the true, lasting peace, joy, and fulfillment that only the authentic Church can provide. Quite a contrast from the one liners you hear in the media from people who know nothing about the Church except for the lies and misconceptions that keep getting perpetuated in the media. Sadly, there are a lot of people whose only knowledge of the Catholic Church is what they hear in movies.
While I generally accept the theory of evolution, I'm not sure it explains everything about how life began and developed. I have a degree in Biology btw, so unlike some people who mindlessly recite evolution to attack religion, I actually fully understand the theory (this is no attack on you btw, I have no idea if you understand evolution or not). Darwin's Theory of Natural Selection argues that living things have evolved to increase the chances of reproduction for each species. In other words, the random mutations that provide a reproductive advantage are passed on, and those that do not leave the gene pool. It's all about survival of the fittest...those variations that give a competitive advantage will help the individual compete for resources, survive, and therefore, by living longer, will be able to on average leave more offspring. All well and good. Just a few problems with the theory. It doesn't explain much of what we observe from human beings. For example, what kind of reproductive advantage, or survival advantage, does a belief in God provide, especially if that God doesn't exist? Or what about self-sacrificial love? If I save the life of a loved one, only to lose my own life in the process, there is no net survival advantage. In fact, by trying to save a life, there's a chance we both might die. So how do you explain selfless love? Or martyrs who are willing to die for their faith in God? And what about the famous "missing link"? There are gaps in the evolutionary record....sure they could still be discovered, but there's also a chance that evolution is not the sole factor in the development of life on earth. Perhaps human beings were created by God separate from the evolution of the rest of life on earth? There's no scientific proof that human beings are just the latest in the evolutionary chain. And science still has no idea how the first living organism began from nonliving matter and energy. The famous Miller and Urey experiments from the 1960's (or 70's?) is still the closest explanation we have, and all that theory explains is how nonliving organic molecules could have arisen from the atoms that make them up. No explanation for how those molecules somehow organized themselves and began to animate themselves in such a way as to produce a living, self-reproducing organism.
Don't forget the other mechanism-- sexual selection. It also impacts evolution, though probably much less so. It is sort of an interesting question, but I don't see how it calls into the question the larger validity of evolution. (Are trying to? If you have a degree in biology you know there is overwhelming evidence for it.) Humans have evolved big complex brains, and there are all sorts of things that are by-products of this, like art, humor, religious belief, schizophrenia, etc. It seems pretty obvious to me why humans up until the recent modern age might ascribe all sorts of things they didn't understand to supernatural beings. Humans wanted to understand things, like lightning or volcanoes or how babies are created and not knowing anything about electromagnetic forces, planetary geology, or cells and genes, they came up with something they could explain-- there is someone doing that! Spirits, supreme beings, as agents. Your loved ones, your family, or very close friends, share your genes, or are committed to the survival of your genes. Of course you will die for them, for your children-- that is evolution in action! I am sure there are other aspects as well regarding why altruistic tendencies towards in-group individuals might confer advantages. Yeah you got me on this one. Why don't you tell me how a religious fanatic is willing to die, and for that matter kill, in the name of an imaginary supreme being? Mental illness, maybe? First of all, while it is true that there are surprisingly few fossil hominids recovered and identified, given the time spans involved, the fact is that there are thousands of them, spanning the entire time period of the evolution of hominids. It is definitely not true that there is a "gap" in the fossil record, in the sense that it is not clear how species A got to species B, and therefore the whole concept is thrown into doubt. There is abundant evidence--not only fossil but also genetic and biological--that humans are part of the tree of life. If you want to say something like "but no! because no one has ever SEEN humans evolve from apes, so I refuse to believe it! It PROVES there was GOD!!!" then, well, I don't know what to say. People HAVE seen evolution in action, in the lab many times, with fruit flies and bacteria. Finally-- why does the burden of proof lie with the scientists? Everything that cannot be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt with the scientific method, means that there nust be an all-powerful supreme being in the sky who created everything and watches over us and is benevolent but for some reason allows children to get cancer and kills good people in car accidents while assholes like [insert your favorite villain here] thrive into old age? It is true that we don't understand exactly how life began in the primordial soup, but people are working on it, setting up tests, observing them, analyzing data. Why on earth does it make any sense to resort to the big guy in the sky? Zeus and Odin throwing thunderbolts? Flying Spaghetti Monster? Also, you never answered the question-- do you believe that God created Adam and Eve in his own image? And the fossil and genetic record is somehow misunderstood?
WOW, what an excellent reply...thank you for your well-thought-out response! There is still hope for humanity, there are still people like you out there who actually THINK things through instead of selecting a ready-made one-line response they heard on TV and just repeating it ad nauseum (like so many on here have done). The same tired old cliches repeated over and over. So I want to sincerely thank you for taking the time to think all of this through and discuss this in an intelligent way with me. (there are a few others on here who have done the same, but far too many who just hurl childish insults and/or regurgitate stereotypes and misconceptions.) You wrote so much it will take me some time to respond to it all, but I definitely intend to. I may not have time for it all now, but I will start with the question of how life began, which is crucial to the fundamental debate of whether or not God exists at all. First of all, you ask the question of why a loving God could allow bad things to happen to good people, or good things happen to bad people. This is a big one, and I will answer the best I can using my Catholic Faith (which includes over 2000 years of theologians and other academics studying this and other issues). As I understand it, the best explanation we have goes as follows: God created us as highly intelligent beings, both physical and spiritual...we are composed of body, mind, and soul. We are the pinnacle of God's creation; the only creatures who are fully self-aware and who can understand right from wrong, abstract concepts, etc. We are the only creatures who can truly make informed decisions regarding our lives, including moral issues of right and wrong. God wanted us to be truly free to make these choices, so he gave us free will. With that free will comes responsibility, not only for ourselves and our families, but for our communities and the entire world. He wants us to develop virtue and love for one another, which he taught us in many ways, most notably with Moses and the 10 commandments, then with Jesus' ultimate commandment to love one another as yourself. Armed with all of this, he wants us to be free to make the world a place that will be free and beneficial to all people. In other words, we are free and we have the power to help each other. God is often referred to as our Father, and as any good parent, he is there to help us and teach us, but he wants us to learn to do things for ourselves, and help ourselves. So he wants us to learn to fix the problems in our world that lead to suffering and injustice. But most of all, if God intervened in a powerful, supernatural way to alter human behavior to help us out of the predicaments we get ourselves into, he would be taking away people's free will. Unfortunately, sometimes the freedom of others who make bad choices, or evil choices, will cause pain and suffering for innocent people. But God respects the free will of all people, good and bad....and after all, we know that people are not simply "good" and "evil" like in children's stories of superheroes and villains. We are all combinations of good and evil, we all have our "demons" we struggle with as well as our virtues. That's why religion is so important in this world. It helps people be free from the harmful effects of sin, it inspires people to help one another, and therefore alleviate some of the suffering you refer to. But ultimately this is a fallen world, due to the sin of our first parents (whether or not that literally happened as told in the Bible) or whether we all just have a tendency to be tempted to sin due to our human nature and free will. But regardless, God as our Father helps us along the way and gives the tools of the Catholic Church, the sacraments, to help us. He wants us to remain free, and use our intelligence to make the world a better place. As for the question of how the universe began, my point is that if you agree with the basic, common sense premise that "nothing can create itself", then it is literally impossible for the universe to have created itself. No amount of time, or scientific research and advancements, can ever change this basic fact. No matter how far back you want to go, nothing comes from nothing, and nothing can create itself (since in order to "create itself" it would have had to have existed before it was created, which obviously makes no sense!). .....right? Is there anything wrong with my logic here? (btw, I think what I just said makes sense and is true from a scientific perspective....so the answer to how the universe began must lie outside of science .... right?)
Because no one gets to a higher level of understanding and leaves? Again, your lack of humility is stunning and your inability to understand any viewpoint other than your own shows how narrow minded you are - just like they want it. We don't need to read your little books or watch your anecdotal television stories of a handful of zealots to lead good fulfilling lives. If you do, go for it.
How am I not being humble? I never claimed to make any of this stuff up, instead I cite the work of others....I am simply following the rich tradition of the Catholic Church, all of the work has already been done, I am simply sharing what I have learned. How is that a "lack of humility"??? I understand other viewpoints, I just don't agree with them. You sir are the one who is being "narrow-minded", if anything, because you refuse to even consider my viewpoint (which again is not just "my viewpoint" but the knowledge shared by billions of Catholics over the years). Instead, you just pick from y0ur list of stock insults and stereotypes and hurl them at me without really thinking about what I say, or whether your attacks even apply. If you want to believe what you just said, then that's your right, you are free to believe what you want. It's your loss. As for me, I will continue to discuss, and share, facts and evidence, not merely my own opinions. My opinions don't mean much, but the Truth is out there, and that's all that matters.
You mean like the idea of indulgences, i.e. the Roman Catholic Church's quid pro quo "get out of jail" Visa card? Martin Luther: "Don't leave home without it." Championing one's particular demonination smacks of "religious ethnocentrism" and (regardless of denomination) phrases such as "the one true holy and apostolic church" and "the chosen people" border on cult-speak. In this regard I think you'd be better served viewing 'catholic' in the broader, literal sense of the word: 'universality, diversity,' etc. versus some pay-your-dues 'club' characterization.
what do you call a Nun on roller skates? a roamin' catholic ba dun pshhh!! you know those penguins took it out on my knuckles with those rulers of theirs, but i forgive them because they were doing gods work bless their souls. if they only handed out nilla wafers for communion in church instead of those horrible gluey-pastey tasting hosts i may have stuck around a lot longer than i did. hey didnt i say i was gonna bow out of this before? i cant help myself.
