Religion - a respectful discussion, for those interested

So you think that it makes sense that something could have just "always existed"? Why should something exist rather than nothing? Isn't space essentially an empty vacuum, except for that we find inside of it? If that's the case, isn't it more reasonable to say that the default state of the universe is an empty vacuum? Can something just always have existed without an origin?

It's a philosophical question, I suppose, but to me it seems much more reasonable that nothingness, an empty vacuum, is the default, and that any matter or energy must have come from somewhere, or have some kind of root cause, or origin.

But I like the fact that you are thinking this through. You are one of the few people on here who actually thinks about these things, or is willing to put forth some kind of reasoned response. Most are just blowing hot air, perhaps because they have a psychological fear of coming to believe and being forced to rethink their lives.

....btw, you claim that it is ridiculous to say that there was nothing in the physical universe, in fact no physical universe at all, but only a supernatural realm, or being, before time began. Isn't it at least possible that there could have been no physical existence, but only a supernatural entity that we can't perceive with our physical senses? Even science theorizes that before the big bang there was no time, space, or matter. So you are wrong about that, science now believes that there was a "time" when there was nothing, no space for a universe to exist in, and no time, at least as we know it. So that destroys your whole argument. Study up on that, and then try again to answer my question. (don't feel bad if you can't though, many of the world's top scientists today believe in God)

 

Look, practically everyone in the world knows there's a spiritual reality to our existence, that we are body, mind, and soul. Most people can't prove it or argue for it scientifically, but they have experienced it in their lives. The countless miracles witnessed by normal people, many near-death experiences reported, including at least one by a scientist who could prove that it was caused by nothing in the brain (he wrote a best selling book "Proof of Heaven" and a follow-up on the same topic), the everyday spiritual experiences by countless people, etc.

You're going to slam me for this one, but even Sting sang "we are spirits in the material world".

The lines people are spewing here, the "sound bites" they are mindlessly repeating: "religion is what people believed, or fell back on, before science could explain things, blah blah blah, that's all old, people don't really think that way anymore. Scientists certainly don't think that way (except for a couple yahoos, renegades like Richard Dawkins who insist on continuing to try to attack religion despite not having a leg to stand on anymore).

Science has gotten so sophisticated, we have discovered practically all we are capable of discovering. There's not much mystery left in the physical, natural universe. And the theories of a universe somehow creating itself are getting more and more far-fetched, the few atheists left are really reaching for straws with "explanations" that are becoming more and more nonsensical. Science can never observe or explain the supernatural directly, but as we are coming to the "edge" of what science can discover, it is becoming more and more clear that science alone is insufficient to explain reality. Science is coming up on the edge of the supernatural, and open-minded, unbiased scientists are realizing this. That's why a larger percentage of scientists than ever before are coming out and saying that the more we learn about science, the stronger their religious convictions are becoming.

 

This is the BS forum, a place where all non-sports topics are open for discussion, provided there is nothing abusive.

And I know the old adage is "you can't discuss religion or politics", but why not? Why should mature adults not be able to discuss, in a civil way, these topics? What is so "taboo" about them? Part of being a mature adult is being able to discuss ideas with people of differing opinions, isn't it?

And you are absolutely right, science will never be able to prove or even fully explain religion, because they each study a different area of reality; the natural and the supernatural. Some still don't believe there's a supernatural realm, despite all of the evidence that has piled up over the centuries (mostly personal experiences, not scientific), but again, science can only study the natural, physical universe. But more and more scientists are saying that the more they learn about science, the more convinced they have become that there must be a supernatural reality, or what we commonly refer to as "God". Science has gotten so sophisticated that it seems we are at the point where there is little left to be discovered, and science has gotten to the point where it is starting to meet the "edge" of where the natural ends, and the supernatural begins.