let me clarify: I believe he is currently at the bottom of the barrell. i believe his ceiling is low, and if he drastically improves and reaches that ceiling it still wont be enough to make us contenders. thats all my opinon though and you are of course entitled to yours, but lets step back since that seems less relevant to the discussion.... Confirming he is a not the awnser early is VERY beneficially. it allows you to put a plan in place to find your next franchise player. more imporantly it removes the process where you waste seasons invested in someone that wont get you to the finish line. i disagree, i think that moves us forward: dump bad QB -> transition to young QB -> look for potential other franchise QBs how is that not progressing towards getting a better QB here? as opposed to start bad qb ->give that qb another chance ->continue with that qb -> decide to move on -> try and find another qb Geno becoming a top 10 QB doesnt sound like something realistic to me. i think it would take enormous strides for him to become average. so maybe it does come back to my opinon of his ceiling vs yours
Appreciate your feedback, and do agree that knowing where we stand with Geno is crucial. In fairness my personal expectations from Geno were never much different than yours, but realistically I am not remotely capable to assess his ceiling at this point. My knock on him has been that he does not appear to be sufficiently football smart ( base on some of his decision making) to pick up the complexities of the NFL schemes. Having said that I think our prior regime did him no favors by putting him in when he was not even remotely ready, and even last year never allowed for him to play to his strengths instead of that sorry ass five yard lateral dumps we forced him to play. So perhaps our assessment of his capabilities is way off. While the final results might prove you right, my view is that confirming ASAP he is the answer (albeit perhaps a long shot) is a far greater near term gain than confirming he is not. We will know soon enough. Cant wait for training camp
I'm pretty certain Boomer wore it also. And neither one of the 2 were whiners, like Geno. Gino acts like a girl that didn't get asked to the prom.
Despite Geno's troubles, I still believe in "downfield development", which implies opening the playbook and throwing downfield. I follow this maxim because no true franchise QB today (that wasn't a checkdown artist to begin with) developed with a checkdown centric playbook. Eli, Brees, Big Ben, even guys like Tannehill were all tossed threadbare into the bath tub the same way. More than anything, perhaps the reason behind Geno's lackluster results isn't what he's been asked to do, but rather whom he's been asked to perform with. That is, I think the most salient reason for Geno's lackluster performances is the receivers around him. Outside of a hobbled Decker, Geno had virtually no established receiver to target last year. So even whilst Geno got better as a whole, his offensive support wasn't good enough make a true difference. It's like becoming a better racecar driver but driving an old Toyota. You might drive your old car better than you did in the past but drivers with better cars will still beat you most of the time. But now that Geno has a healthy Decker, Marshall, Devin and maybe Enunwa, he has a better racecar. He should be able to compete.
Actually, I have voiced my amazement before on this: Geno, like Petty now, walked in here from a Pop Warner offense in college, started Day One in a West Coast offense, and went 8-8. Now we can say yeah, Sanchez did that too. But Sanchez came form a pro offense, and Sanchez played with a much more talented group. Both regressed from that point. Even considering that Geno's supporting class was worse Year Two, I would say he regressed. He got benched, after all. But my argument is that a lot of players regress before they go forward again. We see a lot of teams play over their heads down the stretch and assume that they will be great the following year, but they regress instead. I think that is the case with players too. Think about it. Geno was not great Year One, but he still went 8-8. He came from behind late to win, I think, 3 games his rookie season. There are people now talking about nailing Petty to the bench for two years. To do nothing for two years! So I think that while I am not optimistic, I am not of the belief that Geno is doomed to fail utterly. By the same token, I do not see him being a top ten QB either. Can they win with him? I think an improved team structure and more stable coaching heads might be able to get something out of him.
Indeed Sanchez had fewer excuses for his poor performances because, like you say, he had more pro style experience coming and more offensive support thereafter. However I dont believr Geno nor Sanchez regressed. Geno's numbers probably went down last year not as a function of regression, buy because he lost Holmes, and dallied instead with an injured Decker alongside a blanketed Kerley. Sanchez probably didnt regress either. His stunning ability to churn out mediocrity whatever the ingredients, with and without weapons, implies he likely just hit his ceiling. We still have yet to see what Geno does with offensive support.
I think your calling a collegiate offense a "Pop Warner offense" is silly. Variety is the spice of life. I give credit to those OCs and/or HCs who develop their own offensive systems in an effort to win. They're using their brains and being smart in trying to gain a competitive advantage. If a team has never or seldom seen a different offense, it can make them vulnerable. Not every college can get a topflight QB or RB or even OL. They have to try to figure a way to win with what they have. Would you rather everyone play the same system and those who don't get the talent just be doomed to go winless every season? Secondly, your saying that Petty sitting on the bench for two years would be doing "nothing" is absurd! Obviously, Petty isn't going to be sitting on the bench for no reason and/or just twiddling his thumbs. If he's sitting on the bench, it's because he needs to work on footwork, reading Ds, learning the offense, adjusting to the speed of the NFL or some combination of those and other factors. Saying he would be doing "nothing" is stupid.
I am only comparing it tothe pros. The pro offenses are so much harder, then the college spreads are far less demanding on QBs. That is all. If coaches want to show how smart they are that is fine. But it does a young player little good to play in one in college and come here and be handed a dunce cap. As for Petty, I am not saying he should sit on the bench for two years. MY post said: There are people now talking about nailing Petty to the bench for two years. A lot of posters and some writers are saying he should not see the field for at least one year or more. I disagree with this. Why? We do not know what he can do. He has never been asked to do these things. And no, everyone does not play the same system anywhere, but the college Air Raids and Spreads hamstring a hopeful when he comes to the NFL. I was crediting Geno for his first year record coming out of a college system to the West Coast system. And by the way, I actually do not care much for college football. Too much scoring and too many turnovers. But that is my taste. The point of my post was that I reserve some hope for Geno and Petty.
I agree that it doesn't help prepare a player for the NFL, but I don't think the college coaches who develop their own offensive system give a whit about that. They're worrying about doing their jobs the way they know best. It goes hand in hand with what I was discussing with alleycat in another thread about why high school and collegiate coaches don't teach players the correct fundamentals and techniques they need to know. The Jets made a mistake with both Sanchez and Geno forcing them onto the field (throwing them to the wolves) before they were anywhere near ready to play. Most of the "experts" think Petty will need to sit as well. We don't want to see yet another young QB prospect ruined by forcing him to play before he's ready. Many, if not most, young players entering the NFL have an adjustment, not only to the new systems in which they play, but the speed of the game. Petty played in a system that was basically a one-read and throw. NFL defenses are more complex than collegiate ones, and he will need to learn to switch to multiple reads. I hope that he doesn't have to sit for two years or even one year, but if that's what he needs so that when he does see the field, he's confident and not struggling with any fundamentals or issues, then that's what he should get. One cannot play well and work on fundamentals at the same time. I'm sure you know that players need to not think too much, and just let their instincts take over. If Petty surprises and is ready to play the first game of the season, I'm fine with that. I don't think that will happen, however. I think that he will need to sit for awhile and focus on reading NFL Ds, work on footwork and learn the offense. Maybe by the end of the season, he'll be ready to play. It's fine that you don't care for college football. No one said you have to. I still hold out some hope for Geno and I definitely have hope for Petty.
I have been saying all along that I think Geno is very insecure. He has a lot of bravado but deep down I think he is full of doubt. Petty sounds like a different cat. But Geno went 8-8 fresh off the college football boat with a bad team around him. So he must actually have something. And we have no way of knowing what reserves of football instinct and ability Petty brings to the game because he was used like a robot in college. So it is a matter of being optimistic. He has decent size. He can throw. And he has a legit chip on his shoulder. I have my fingers crossed. He could possibly see some time this year if Geno blows. Let's hope that does not happen, though. I want our players to do well.
I don't think any Jet fan wants Geno to fail but many of us have seen the writing on the wall. He's just a bad QB and we want the merry-go-round to stop. The fact that our prior genius GM thought he should be the man speaks volumes. JMHO PS Geno please make me eat my words. I want to root for you but!!!!!
Realistically there's too much for SMith to overcome in order for him to rise to the level of an acceptably competent NFL Qb. It is impossible for him to do that? No one's saying that. But it is very unlikely. He's still on the team for two reasons. He has a cheap contract, and the Jets could do no better than obain Fitzpatrick. Who is probably a realistic hold the fort guy, not even a likelihood to be here for 3 years, imo, short term even more than medium. Smith may play if Fitz is hobbled coming back from the broken leg, and Petty is too green to play. None of that means Smith is seen as a realistic hope to suddenly play competent football. Given those considerations the sooner the Jets are in a position to go beyond Smith, the better.
I hear you and appreciate the clear logic but I have not seen any indication from Geno that he has the ability to raise his game five fold. Normally, a guy who throws a lot of INT that is going to be a star also shows brilliance at a comparable rate. I will use Farve as my example. He threw a ton of INT but he was showing that he was a dynamic play maker with an unbelievable will to win. Am I missing something because to me Geno has not shown either of those skills at all.
GS can't help that he doesn't have the tools to be a decent QB--but my real knock against him is that he came in unbelievably unprepared and quit on the team in that Buff game last year. That is the character aspect that will prevent him from being successful beyond a game or two. Even the most optimistic of fans realized at that moment he should be off the team. Somehow, they need to be convinced again. Hopefully Bowles doesn't let him see the field in 2015.
Geno's absolute ceiling is joe flacco...his floor is geno smith. The hate is because Geno plays like Geno too often.
