I have not lost anything, I presented the best argument but you keep telling me I lose and not showing anything. Thanks for that.
it's really not even a debate. Brady's legacy is permanently stained. That is fact. and Mods really......can we finally change this false thread title? It's an insult to intelligence, and to this board.
I agree, the title of this thread should be changed. It's a pure fact not opinion. The only people who support Tom Brady at this stage as the greatest, are fake Jet fans and Patriot fans.
For Pats fans, its now all about protecting their legacy. They want full credit given from everyone around the league for those 4 Superbowls. I think that this will be a serious black mark against them, whether they like it or not. And no I wouldn't "switch places with them if I had the chance". I'd rather than 0 Super Bowls than get them by cheating.
Even The Boston Globe admits Brady's legacy is tainted. Can't get more "proof" than that hahahaaa. Anyone who truly believes Brady's legacy isn't tainted is a moron or naive or intentionally obtuse, but probably all three. This is the Boston Globe we're talking about, not some jealous fans--what a flawed idea. The whole country believes Brady is tainted. The GOAT my ass. http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2...g-tom-brady/qrFxvrcKdEP6Lvh8xO1wsM/story.html More tarnish on Patriot legacy, this time tainting Tom Brady By Dan Shaughnessy BOSTON GLOBE COLUMNIST MAY 07, 2015 It’s a bad day for the Patriots. It’s an especially bad day for New England’s iconic quarterback, Tom Brady. The Patriots are Super Bowl champs, but the NFL also believes the Patriots are cheaters. The Patriots certainly didn’t need to illegally deflate footballs to beat the Indianapolis Colts, 45-7, in the AFC Championship game, but according to Ted Wells’s report released Wednesday, they went ahead and did it anyway. View Story Read the full Deflategate report The 243-page report, which took months to complete, was released finally Wednesday. Robert Kraft blasts report Brady’s father slams ‘Framegate’ Key takeaways from the report his Jan. 24 Mona Lisa Vito science lesson. And Kraft evidently has been duped. Again. Just as he was duped on Spygate. And on Aaron Hernandez. Remember Kraft’s defiance when he arrived in Glendale, Ariz., for the Super Bowl? “I believe, unconditionally, that the New England Patriots have done nothing inappropriate in this process or in violation of NFL rules,’’ Kraft stated in histhrowdown speech on Super Bowl Monday. He told us Belichick and Brady have never lied to him and then he said he wanted an apology if the investigation “is not able to definitely determine that our organization tampered with the air pressure in the footballs.’’ The 243-page report released Wednesday concludes that it is “more probable than not” the Patriots broke the rules and deflated the footballs. The mountain of evidence makes it impossible to draw any other conclusion. The paper trail indicates that Brady did not communicate with equipment guy John Jastremski for six months, then engaged in multiple conversations with Jastremski (more than 20 minutes of talking) in the days after the scandal broke. The notion that Belichick did not know this was going on makes one’s head explode. Nothing happens in Foxborough without Belichick’s knowledge. Reporters check in at “security command” and are videotaped asking questions. No detail is too insignificant. On Jan. 24, Belichick defiantly explained why the footballs would have become deflated during the course of the AFC Championship. It was all about science and weather. Unfortunately, the report states that only the 11 Patriot footballs were discovered to have a PSI level below league limits. All four Colt footballs magically maintained a PSI within the league limit. So Belichick’s science explanation is flawed. But it is Brady who has the most explaining to do. It stretches all believability to conclude that he had nothing to do with this. And it damages his hard-earned legacy across America. There are simply too many football people telling us that there is no way Brady can be telling the truth. We all know that America is populated by jealous Patriot haters. Brady and the Patriots do themselves no service by impeding the investigation (team counsel would not let Wells have a second interview with Jim McNally, the officials’ locker room attendant) or telling us the sun is out when we are standing in the middle of a downpour. The Patriots won the Super Bowl fair and square, with PSI-regulation balls. They did not need deflated footballs to beat the Colts. It certainly cannot be proved the Patriots were doing this every week. But they have armed their legion of enemies with a new weapon. A deflated football is easier to throw, easier to catch, and harder to fumble. The rule allowing each team to prepare its own game balls went into effect in 2006. Since 2007, the Patriots have fumbled far less than the NFL average (once every 187 plays, compared with once every 105 for the rest of the league, according to Slate). They have also been the greatest bad-weather team in the history of football. Now folks in Pittsburgh and Denver and Indianapolis are going to say the Patriots have been better because they cheated. This makes the deflation of footballs more than rolling through a stop sign. If there were no competitive advantage, why would the Patriots be doing it? NFL commissioner Roger Goodell loves Kraft, loves Brady, and he loves the Patriots, but he presumably has to answer to 31 other owners — most of whom have had their butts kicked by the Patriots on a regular basis. Sanctions are coming. For Brady and maybe for the Patriots. It’s about systematically breaking the rules of competition. It’s about a loss of institutional control. And a legacy tarnished again. _
ohhh so the Boston Globe says so(one writer) so that proves it! as we know NY writers NEVER, EVER say a bad word about NY area teams.
Just another in a long line of articles. Anyone believing otherwise is just a Patriot apologist. http://www.rantsports.com/nfl/2015/...chicks-legacy-is-forever-tainted-by-cheating/ Tom Brady and Bill Belichick’s Legacy is Forever Tainted By Cheating By Bill Zimmerman on May 6, 2015 There’s no coming back from this one. The Ted Wells report on “Deflategate” is officially out and his investigative team found that the New England Patriots did indeed deflate footballs and that Tom Brady was “generally aware.” This ends an investigation that lasted over three months and has had the sports world wondering if this report would ever be finalized. It also ends any chance that Bill Belichick or Tom Brady will not have the term “cheaters” attached to their legacy. The argument about whether or not deflating footballs gives the Patriots a major advantage is moot. It’s no different that arguing whether you think baseball players that use an illegal amount of pine tar or if hockey players are using a bit too much curvature on their hockey stick are really cheaters or just gaining a competitive advantage. However you see it, there is no debating that it is in violation of the rules. The weak argument is that Belichick didn’t know; the weaker argument is that Brady didn’t know. Tom Brady knew, and if you read the details of the Wells report its pretty clear. Ted Wells did everything except place Brady at the scene of the crime, he found Brady with his hand in the cookie jar, but couldn’t find evidence that he actually ate a cookie. Furthermore, yes, it was Tom Brady’s right to decline helping the Wells investigation but by refusing to do so he makes it look like he has something to hide and didn’t want to incriminate himself. In essence, he pleaded the fifth. Brady had the equipment assistants deflate footballs, and if you don’t think Belichick knew, you are just fooling yourself. Belichick doesn’t delegate much, he has his hands in everyone’s business. He knows every aspect of that football team, and if someone doesn’t think Belichick caught wind that Brady has been manipulating footballs since 2004 ( also in the Wells report) at some point, then they also probably also believe in the existence of unicorns. With a Super Bowl win this year, Brady and Belichick had a chance to finally put Spygate behind them. They had a chance to silence the critics who were always quick to point out that the team hadn’t won a Super Bowl since Spygate. They had a chance to make that a blemish on their resume rather than a focus. Now, they have yet another cheating scandal tied to a Super Bowl victory. No one is going to claim that Brady and Belichick aren’t great- their success is unprecedented. But there will always be an underlying theme that as great as they are, they were always willing to break a rule to gain an unfair advantage. They putting winning over integrity. In short, they are cheaters. The long time duo was ready to stake their claim as the greatest Quarterback-Coach tandem in NFL history. Now, that is a title they will never hold. No one can argue their greatness, but their integrity is shot. Recently, with one sports scandal after another, knowing the greatest duo we’ve seen since Joe Montana and Bill Walsh are nothing more than a pair of cheats is sad for any sports fan to see.
pretty sad that there are people in the home city that can acknowledge this but we have a pathetic jets "fan" that goes to shameful lengths to deflect, distract, or cover it up for a rival.
Here's another article by a more knowledgeable football writer than our resident apologist. http://profootballspot.com/_/nfl/af...report-tom-brady-and-his-tainted-legacy-r9251 Ted Wells Report, Tom Brady, and His (Tainted) Legacy May 08 2015 11:00 AM | Views: 146 | Robert Golinvaux in New England Patriots Never has the phrase phrase “more probable than not” have had so much effect. In the report that Ted Wells has made on Deflategate, he says Tom Brady “was at least generally aware” of the actions of Jim McNally and John Jastremski. Not exactly the smoking gun that would be needed to be able to without a shadow of doubt brand Brady as a cheater. Yet it would be hard for many people to say that he was not aware that the footballs were underinflated. Brady has denied knowing anything about deflating the football, which occurred in the AFC Championship game against the Indianapolis Colts. When the reports first came out, Brady said "I have no knowledge of anything, I was as surprised as anybody when I heard Monday morning that this happened." He would continue "I choose the balls I want to use for the game, that's what I expect to go out on the playing field with." Brady added "I just assumed they were exactly the same, first half, second half, I would never do anything outside of the rules." Back in January we had no reason to believe that Brady was lying, but after the report has come out, now it would be hard for anyone to believe that he has not been lying the whole time. He had a chance to clear his name during Wells’ investigation, but only muddied the waters by not fully cooperating. Brady did submit to an interview, but he “declined to make available any documents or electronic information (including text messages and email) that [Wells] requested, even though those requests were limited to the subject matter of [the] investigation (such as messages concerning the preparation of game balls, air pressure of balls, inflation of balls or deflation of balls).” The most obvious reason/theory for why Brady would not do this is because there was information that would only harm him and prove that he was involved in deflating footballs. This would not have been as much of an issue if there was not a sudden increase in communication between Brady and Jastremski in the days after the AFC Championship Game . In the following days, Brady and Jastremski would exchange 15 texts and talk on the phone eight times, after not contacting each other for six months. Brady would say that he was checking in on Jastremski, which could be a very viable reason . Believing this was the reason though is hard for many to believe. Now a heap of circumstantial evidence has been heaped upon Rodger Goodell and a decision on how to punish Brady will be made soon. Mike Florio of Pro Football Talk believes that a suspension of Brady is unavoidable, and even without any concrete evidence, Goodell’s hand may be forced to hand one down. Brady’s agent, Don Yee, is trying very hard to turn the blame away from Brady and upon the NFL. In a statement Yee said "It's omission of key facts and lines of inquiry suggest the investigators reached a conclusion first, and then determined so-called facts later, one item alone taints this entire report. What does it say about the league office's protocols, and ethics when it allows one team to tip it off to an issue prior to a championship game, and no league officials or game officials notified the Patriots of the same issue prior to the game? This suggests it may be more probable than not that the league cooperated with the Colts in perpetrating a sting operation." Rather, it sounds more like a desperate attempt to save Brady than a reasonable explanation for what has happened. A reasonable explanation that the world has been waiting for since day one of Deflategate. Brady has denied knowing anything about what has happened. It now seems like he had some knowledge of how the football became deflated. Surely a softer football would not have changed the outcome of the game, which was an all-around route of the Colts. The intent of cheating and damaging the integrity of the game is what matters. Since he came into the league in 2000, Brady has evolved into the face of the NFL. He has been an example of what hard work and a never say die attitude can help you achieve. Now though he is just another player who bent the rules too far. All of this could have been avoided with Brady just admitting to any wrongdoing in January and taken what he had coming. Now, though Brady has waited too long, and his legacy will suffer. Mike Silver of nfl.com said of Brady “There is something you can do if you care about your legacy and really, you have two choices, and you are going to have to do it at some point if you do not want this to forever stain you. Choice number one, answer the questions and give us a viable logical explanation” “Or come clean, apologize, and I think we will forgive you.” Brady, as Mike Silver pointed out, much decided whether he wants to be known as a cheater or admit his wrong doings and hope for forgiveness. No matter what he does, though, his legacy of being the underdog and defying the odds no longer exists. It has been smeared, as has Brady himself, and if he is given forgiveness or not, no longer will Brady be known as the face of the NFL. He will simply be a cheater in the eyes of many, if not everyone, and that should matter more to him than any league punishment coming his way. _
Google "Tom Brady" and "Taint" and after dozens of pictures of Tommy's vagina, you'll see the mountain of backlash about how he's tainted his legacy. Everyone knows it. _
Thanks for sharing... I understand you were at both games as a younger man so its nice to get the perspective of someone who was there
