Came across this article on Cleveland.com. It's from before the draft and it's an interesting and somewhat neutral look at the effect of the growing difference between the college game and the NFL game and the stresses on QB's and evaluating QB's for the NFL. A couple of the more interesting takes. 1. It takes time to develop QB's from wide open offenses to the NFL, something coaches don't have and fans don't tolerate. If a QB doesn't lead his team to the promised land after 1 or 2 years he's deemed a failure. 2. QB's from spread systems when they do find some level of success in the NFL usually take 2-3 years to find their feet, they're already behind the curve compared to QB's who come out of pro styled offenses. 3. The growing, well regrowing, debate about the need for a developmental league for the NFL. Anyway, agree or disagree with the article it's still an interesting read. http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/02/how_college_spread_offenses_ar.html
another quote in the article regarding pre reads in college and the pros. Savage placed his hand on a visitor's shoulder to illustrate a point about the difference between college and NFL pass coverage. "In college that is (a player who is) covered," he said. "And for three years you are going to be taught to get off that picture and find somebody else. In the pros, that same relationship is open."
This is about more than this years draft, it's effecting the draft more and more with each passing year. Geno Smith and EJ Manuel are both products and/or victims of this, there are of course many others, Bortels, etc. And I know some of you just think I blather on the subject, so I'll let an expert speak on it. By Expert I mean a Hall of Fame QB who came up as a 'system' QB in to the NFL and struggled until he learned that in the NFL if you want success you will have to learn to throw from the pocket as your primary duty, and not your secondary duty. I'm of course speaking of Steve Young, who speaks often and in volumes on this topic. http://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2014/11/21/steve-young-and-the-art-of-molding-a-mobile-quarterback/
Yep, well except when he got booted out of Tampa after a season or so. Irregardless his point stands on what these young QB's face coming out of systems that do almost the exact opposite of what is needed at the NFL level. As a fan of the game it's really discouraging.
Most people seem to think that young QB's should be given the 2-3 year grace period of development. But in today's "QB friendly" NFL its hard to give a guy that long. Its been a long time since a QB has struggled in his first season or two only to put it together and become a success with the same team.
Saw the following on ESPN Where are all the quarterbacks? "The college game is killing us," one NFL general manger said. "Not just the quarterbacks, but it makes it tough to evaluate all the positions. But it's really true with the quarterbacks." There were only seven quarterbacks picked in this year's draft, the fewest since 1955. Teams scrambled to sign some as undrafted free agents after the draft -- hey, you need camp arms -- but the reality is there is a shortage of passers capable of playing the NFL game. And the NFL game, despite what many hope, isn't changing. Why? You can't pay a guy millions and then ask him to expose himself like they do with the quarterbacks in college. It would be fiscal suicide if that guy gets hurt -- career-threatening hurt. In college, Bobby replaces Billy and life goes on. Sis-boom-bah. In the NFL, season over. A quick look to the 2016NFL Draftshows four potential "pocket" passers who could go in the first round -- Penn State's Christian Hackenberg, Michigan State's Connor Cook, Cal's Jared Goff and Cardale Jones of Ohio State, who has a total of three starts on his résumé and opened last season as the Buckeyes' third-team passer. There are a handful of other pocket passers who have a chance to make it, guys like Gunnar Kiel at Cincinnati, but we are seeing more and more spread quarterbacks who are just as dangerous with their legs as their arms. The problem is that you don't get faster as you get older and it's not sustainable to run around in the NFL. Eventually, you have to get into the pocket and make the reads to make the plays. It happens to all of the guys who flash early as mobile quarterbacks. Ask Steve Young. He says it all the time. REFER TO POST #3 ABOVE TO SEE COMMENTS Getting a franchise passer means you will have long-term success. That's why theColtsare so glad to haveAndrew Luck. He is the prototype. TheRedskinsthought they had their sustainable-success quarterback whenRobert Griffin IIIdid some impressive things as a rookie. But when it came time to grow in the pocket after a major knee injury, he couldn't do it without the help of the ability to move. The training wheels came off, and the bike fell. After the draft,Cleveland Brownscoach Mike Pettine said his team wasn't going to "over-prioritize the quarterback position." That's spoken like a man who doesn't have one in large part because of the shortage. Those run-around quarterbacks, who the supposed experts predict will revolutionize the game, can do some exciting things, but they flash and then eventually they have a choice to make [This copies exactly what Steve Young says in the link in the earlier post]: 1. Grow up as a pocket passer and go through the progressions and reads 2. Get ready for a career that doesn't quite have the longevity you want in that position. Who knows, maybe the NFL will get to a point where teams keep three or four of the run-around quarterbacks on the roster and just deal with the consequences of running an offense to suit them. Then it would be Billy replacing Bobby in the NFL, just like in college, with not much drop in offensive production. I can't see that happening, but you never know. Of course, the teams that have the franchise passers wouldn't have to worry about that. It's just that it's so damned hard to find them, as this past weekend's draft once again reminded us.
Part of the problem, while I agree the NFL is more QB friendly than it's been in it's history it's also true that college QB's are coming in to the league less and less exposed to what's needed to succeed in the NFL, even if it is now set to 'novice' mode. The learning curve is still there, but players that come from non pro systems are going to get 2-3 years to develop, if they develop at all.
Agreed fully with the bold. In some ways , college programs that run those type of offenses are killing the NFL. Or atleast making it easier for teams to make mistakes on high draft picks. They put great athletes at QB instead of average pocket passers who could develop into quality NFL starters. Ive said plenty of times that if Mariota was draft eligible 20 years ago he'd probably be a 5th rounder and guys like Petty and Hundley wouldnt be drafted. No matter what their college stats were. Maybe in Petty's case, since he was a 4th rounder and will not be starting from Day 1, maybe he can eventually develop into an average starter. Maybe. But in Mariota's case, since he will most likely be starting from Week 1, its going to be a struggle. Even if he shows flashes like RG3 and Kaepernick have, eventually defenses will figure him out and it will limit his ceiling. A ceiling that would've looked solid if he wasnt a 2nd overall pick in a draft.
I don't really blame the QB's. I think 20 years ago most of these guys would be coming up in pro style college offenses, with some variances of course. There have always been some athletic QB's, Fran Tarkenton, Joe Namath, Roger Staubach, Archie Manning (though I think he was mostly just running for his life). But yeah, pretty much agree
Its the reason that so many people were torn on Mariota. See all the arm talent in the world, but in the eyes of coaches, he's never actually been a QB.
While I agree with the general assessment of how the plug and play college game is vastly and fundamentally different than the NFL, I would not say it is killing the NFL. More accurately it is stratifying the league into teams that have real NFL Qb's and those who do not. Add in the emphasis on protecting the Qb and encouraging the passing game, and that is what makes the haves and have nots in the league. We as Jet fans are all to familiar with the problem, being a have not team when it comes to a true NFL Qb. And desperately looking for one. But if you're a fan of the Colts or Green Bay or even teams with mid-level Qb's like the Bengals I don't think you'd say the college game is killing the NFL. You'd just say those teams with Qb's who can't get it done in the pocket are likely to be wins for us on the schedule.
I think the NFL is at fault here as well. Look at the Jets. They select a spread offense QB in the draft, and then we jam him into the most inappropriate offense for his background possible in the West Coast offense, and on top of that we shoehorn in power running schemes and wildcat into the offense. Almost any QB would have struggled in that Frankenstein offense especially since it has a lack of weapons outside of QB as well. The NFL needs to adapt to the college game. Kelly has shown that the Oregon greatly simplified spread offense works in the NFL and has for two years so it might not be a fad that defenses can figure out. NE basically runs a spread. Simplified, well executed offenses can work in the NFL with spread QBs. The days of offenses requiring heavy timing based patterns off of 3, 5 and 7 stop drops needs to become less important. The West Coast offense is a system which schemes open receivers through timing. That is just not as important today. Receivers, likely the flip side of the move to spread offense in college, are pervasive in the NFL. What's important now is to get these talented receivers the ball in space, like NE, like GB, like Philly. NFL needs to adapt their offensive schemes to the QBs and offenses of today, Luckily we have a OC that will likely embrace this new era. I am very excited to see the offense we run because I think it will work to Geno's strengths.
he got pro experience in the USFL then in the NFL w/ TB before saving his career by going to SF and watching and learning from an all time great in front of him and an all time great offensive mind. Most QBs don't have that luxury.
It had to absolutely kill Tennessee to pass on Leonard Williams for Mariota. Coming into the draft season Defensive Lineman was their #1 priority and sitting right there was Big Cat Williams, best player in the draft. Jeff Fisher had to be foaming at the mouth. But then Jake Locker retires out of thin air. And Fisher if forced to pass on his dream guy and take a developmental spread offense QB.
I think it's more likely that the NFL adapts by reverting to the past than aligning to the college game. Specifcally, QBs are drafted, and they're developed on the sidelines for a couple of years. A better handle of the offense, prior to being thrown into the fire, will yield less improvisation, and more patience in the pocket.
haha yup. Should have typed Muchad or whatever. I knew that but kept picturing Fisher dealing with this.
there is so much wrong with this post it is hard to know where to start. How about that it is not some rule or reqired approach that NFL teams play Qb's the way they do. They individually choose to take the approach they do, in large part for the reasons Steve Young and others have mentioned - college Qb's can't survive long enough in the NFL running the ball. They need to be effective passing from the pocket. It's a simple matter of applying different parameters, here the amount of time the player has to be on the team in order to pay off the investment in him. Most egregious is the implied suggestion that Smith's problems at Qb are because of the kind of O the Jets play. I see no evidence of that, and in fact have quoted articles here before that he was scouted as able to play the west coast O. Of the specific NFL teams you mentioned I think you missed that Philly was most successful since Kelly joined the team in 13 when Foles went on a great streak. Foles is hardly a spread offense Qb. And NE? Brady essentially never runs the ball. GB's Rodgers can run the ball, but always as a last optino - GB is first and foremost a pocket passing offense. ANd being excited about playing to Smith's strengths??? Really ? I think I've said enough, but you said too much already.
