I don't think drafting either Cooper or White will make Geno any smarter. However, I do agree that in the event Williams drops to 6, a trade down would be preferable.
Vic Beasley will not be good...he plays so small. And this thread isn't stupid. It is the truth. Again Beasley is not worth the #6
I think he will be a better pass rusher than Fowler, honestly, though Fowler will be a better overall player. I think Beasley is a tad small but he plays like Von Miller and he's absolutely worth the 6th imo. He could go 3rd overall if his cards fall into place. That said, we shall see.
Absolutely BPA at that point. You bring him in and possibly look to trade Snacks for a late second which you can package with our second to move back into the first and grab Gordon or DGB.
So who are you going to bench for Williams, Mo or Richardson, because you certainly can't have the best player in the draft and the #6 pick sitting on the bench?
No, sadly, it won't make him any smarter, but at least with White, he has great leaping ability and can high point Geno's wild, high throws. He's also pretty aggressive, and when coupled with his speed, I think he would be more likely to fight DBs for the ball and help prevent interceptions.
i cant believe people think that tanking is that easy in football most of these dudes are fighting for their professional lives and you think theyre just going to roll over so management can have a better shot at replacing them? clearly you guys havent a competition bone in your bodies
I don't see the sense of drafting DL with the sixth pick in the draft, especially considering how ignored the offense has been. Drafting DL under a BPA approach is taking that approach to an absurd extent. The Jets would end up having players who should start sitting on the bench while players on O who would be third string pretty much anywhere else would be starting. As for leverage over Wilkerson, how does drafting Williams increase leverage??? If anything, he could be concerned his playing time will go down, meaning he has to get top money now, or not sign, perhaps even hold out to force a trade. Drafting Williams does not improve leverage over Wilkerson.
I usually disagree with you, but here I totally agree. Being competitive is not something you can turn off and on like a faucet on a personal level. And for those players who would be involved in tanking, for the benefit of a team rather than themselves, they would do so at the risk of undercutting their own value in the league. You as a pro player want to do things, or more accurately NOT do things, that would lead to their being game film of you whiffing on tackles, dropping passes thrown right at you, slow down to take yourself out of a play or play out of position? I don't think so.
If that's true, then why is it so blatantly obvious that players take plays off or weeks off during the entire season, not to mention many teams packing it in for the last game or two in a losing season? I think the truth is that there are very few players these days with the old-time mentality of being fierce competitors and hating to lose. I think many today are in it for the money and the fame. As long as they're getting their pay check, they don't really care. If that weren't true very good or great players who become FAs wouldn't sign with bad teams for huge contracts, they wouldn't take plays off during games, they wouldn't quit on their HCs, and pack it in at the end of seasons. If the HC has any intelligence at all, it shouldn't be that obvious or difficult to do. He doesn't have to make an announcement that we're going to tank the game. He can just be less aggressive, let it affect decisions and play-calling during the game, work the players less hard in practice and say they're tired and "beat up" so he's gonna take it easier on them. There are subtle things that can be done to undermine one's chances to win. Of course, unless a HC knows that he will be back the following season, he has no motivation to do that. That's the rub. Tell me that the Colts didn't pack it in a few seasons ago and allow the Jets to win a game and make the playoffs. Granted, the Colts already had made the playoffs, but still, starting Curtis Painter? If that wasn't an intentional loss, I don't know what was.
Come on, are you serious? If that's how feel, by all means leave now. The team doesn't need fair weather fans. For real. Look, I've been a fan of this team since the 70's when I was a kid. I feel your frustration, I've screamed and cried and been left broken by this team. But I would NEVER give up on the Jets. Loyalty is important. So is patience. Let's take your comment about taking a 3-4 OLB. The only LB the Jets should take at 6 is Fowler. Everyone else has too many weaknesses to be taken that high. Trading down if Williams is there? Sure that's a smart move, except that you need to find a partner willing to trade with. Otherwise you're stuck, and in that case might as well take Williams and either build a super unit or make a trade. We have no choice but to wait and see how the draft shakes out. Maybe the Jets trade up, maybe someone falls, who knows? BTW does anyone else find it weird that us Jets fans consider it a bad thing if the best player in the draft falls to us (Williams)?
THIS 10000x. Teams who have clinched do this all the time without any backlash. You could argue those players "deserve" the time off, but I think that misses the point. It still lowers the standard of play because of the team's less than 100% effort due to their playoff destiny. With sports becoming more about playoffs than the regular season, these tactics are going to be used more not less.
I hear what you're saying and understand your perspective. I've been a fan since 1964. Life's just too short imo to continually be frustrated and upset by something that's supposed to bring you fun, joy and pleasure. IMO, if Mac just took Williams instead of White and/or didn't try to trade down, then I would no longer trust his judgment. I understand that he's supposedly the best player in the draft and taking the BAP and all that. 98 times out of a 100 that would be the right thing to do, but not in the case of this Jets team when so many other #1 picks have been spent on the DL and the offense ignored and OLB ignored. Sure, it takes a trading partner to be able to move down, but one would have a hard time convincing me that NO team was interested in trading up for Williams. It may have been pre-draft smoke, but Mac is on record as saying he almost always would be in favor of trading down and garnering more picks. Supposedly, the Jets have let it be known that they're willing to move down. Thus, it would be very difficult to convince me that a deal couldn't be struck with some team. I don't think adding Williams would make the D a super unit. I know little about him, since I've had zero interest in him. Can he play NT or would that waste his talents? If not, who are you going to bench, Richardson or Mo, because if you take Williams at #6, he has to start? IMO there's not that much a difference in his talent and what the Jets already have, so any improvement would be marginal. Even a lesser player at another position could have a much bigger impact on the team's play, especially if that is a position of "need" for the Jets. That impact could be exponentially greater if the Jets add 2-3 players instead of Williams. I have faith that Mac will do the right thing, but if he betrays that trust, then it will be very difficult for him to win it back. There's a lot more to life than football and the Jets. I've given a large chunk of the last 51 years of my life to this team. I could walk away with no regrets, with my head held high, and I would have nothing of which to be ashamed. This idea that as fans we have to be masochists and keep spending our time and energy on something that continually disappoints and frustrates us is idiotic. It's victim mentality, and I am not a victim and will never willingly victimize myself.
Point taken, and believe me I know how you feel. It's not a good feeling to be curled up on the floor of your living room feeling like you just got gut punched (Thanks, Doug Brien!). I don't think the worst case scenario will come through. IF Williams is the best player there, I would think someone would try to trade up and get him (Atlanta? New Orleans? Cleveland?). Let's hope luck turns our way and one fo the QB's is there for the taking.
I don't think taking the potential best player in the draft means you have "ignored" greater areas of need on the team. It simply means you made a sound and intelligent play for the greater future of the organization. I am fully behind your thinking of wanting to use this rare opportunity picking so high to address some of the very pressing areas on our favorite team, and I think if things were relatively close you go with the greater need, but if Williams truly is the best non-QB in this draft, then you go with him. The main reason I say this is because the rate of attrition is unbelievably high in the NFL, and being "set" at a position is fool's gold the majority of the time. Look at the 49ers 12 months ago. They were STACKED at LB. Bowman coming back from injury, Willis, and Borland. Look at them today. The Jets have Sheldon and Mo, but Mo is going to want that mega contract very soon. Injury rates are huge. Fall-off isn't just an idle threat. Richardson appears to be here for the long haul, but then again 12 months ago so did Mo and look where things seem to be now. The way rosters turn over in the league, the short life of careers, and the predominant role money has in driving decisions (both for the player and the team) leaves me personally NEVER fearful of the Jets drafting what appears to be redundancy or overkill with such a high pick. I mean, in two years if Mo has signed a massive offer sheet with JAX, Coples is just average, Sheldon is getting double/triple teamed on every play, and Williams is looking like a young Richard Seymour somewhere else because the Jets passed, it's going to look so obvious what we should have done in retrospect. The odds of that sort of scenario don't just exist, they're LIKELY because of how the League chews up and spits players out - mentally, physically, and financially. I am absolutely for trading down if another team wants Williams, I just don't think it should be done with limited regard because "we don't want him anyway" because that isn't a the reality of the situation, and If Williams really is as good as we've been led to believe, then he not only transcends positional needs, but the return on passing on him has to be substantial. Basically, with a player potentially in that category you almost never walk away from him, in my opinion.
If Williams is there, somebody will want to jump up to our spot and grab him. I think Chicago would be pretty desperate to get him, and we could leverage our position against that if nothing else. The Browns moved up one spot to "secure" Trent Richardson even though Minnesota already had Adrian Peterson and there was zero chance they would take him.
I understand what you're saying, and you make many good points. I guess it all boils down to frustration on my part. If the Jets were a consistent playoff team and were widely respected around the league, I wouldn't care who/what position they took as long as they continued to be successful. The thing is as we all know, they aren't even a playoff team, much less a consistent one, and thanks to that ass clown Rex, have been the laughingstock of the league. Often, the only thing I and other fans have had to look forward to was the draft and adding players that we like, think we need, because that at least gives us something to root for and some hope for the future. Then, we're disappointed there because the incompetent boobs Leon/Woody has hired continues to make bad choices, ignore key positions, and focus only on a couple of units. After the offense being ignored and mishandled for so many years and so many picks being used on the DL, I just can't handle yet another DL in the 1st round, I don't care if Williams goes on to be considered the greatest player in the history of the NFL, I don't want him unless he's going to start from day one and Mo or Snacks (wherever they think he will play in the NFL) is traded. Stupid? Perhaps, but that's the way I feel. It isn't rational, it's strictly emotional.
they didnt start cutis painter, he came in during the third quarter ... he and the rest of the team still played hard for the remainder of the game its a lot easier to tank when youre built around a franchise qb, most teams arent built that way ... its not easy to tank in football its not about "deserving the time off", its about keeping players healthy for the post season ... obviously the back ups are not as talented as the starters but those back ups still play hard because theyre trying to impress a gm, any gm i would have had no problem losing those games, but im not going to bash the administration because we werent as terrible as another team ... if its so easy to tank, then the titans would do it too. and they were worse than us to start, so what exactly would that solve?
