James Hasty Mock

Discussion in 'Draft' started by James Hasty, Apr 26, 2015.

  1. James Hasty

    James Hasty Well-Known Member

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    From rotoworld (link):

    http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/53704/466/force-players-2015-draft

    Force Players: 2015 Draft
    Thursday, April 23, 2015

    Note from Josh Norris - Some NFL teams use a formula or threshold based system like Force Players to enhance their decisions. For an expanded conversation, listen to Justis Mosqueda on my podcast.

    Since 2011, I have been developing a filter system to attempt to separate the booms from the busts in the NFL draft at the position best labeled as “EDGE.” My eyes were first opened to looking at the combine metrics of 4-3 defensive ends and 3-4 outside linebackers when a poster named “Waldo56” put up some interesting data on Football's Future, a large football forum.

    From there came the inspiration of the concept now known as “Force Players” after a rebranding from “Math Rushers.” Without giving the formula away, I can say it's loosely based on Waldo's data and it seems to be pretty close to Football Outsiders' SackSEER concept.

    Here are what the first round splits look like over the past decade (2005 being the first year of collected data I could find my hands on):

    [​IMG]
    In blue are the edge rushers known as “Force Players,” and in red are those who failed to pass through the filter. They are in order of per-year AV, which is Pro Football Reference's judgment of a player's career contribution.

    In short, 62 percent of first round pressure creators pass through the filter, becoming Force Players. The average AV of a Force Player is 5.84. Of those 38 percent who don't pass through the filter? 3.03.

    If you throw out Aldon Smith's combine performance, on the case that he was recovering from an injured leg and sticks out like a sore thumb next to the names of Gaines Adams, Quinton Coples and Whitney Mercilus, the non-Force Players' AV drops to 2.85. Essentially, when you're drafting a Force Player, you're getting twice the value, at least in the eyes of Pro Football Reference. You yourself can judge with your eyes and see which list you would rather pick from.

    This trend continues in the second and third rounds, when the filter rate drops from 62 percent passing to 25 percent and 24 percent respectively, but Force Players are averaging 85 percent and 84 percent higher AV's than non-Force Players. Even then, I would suggest throwing Justin Tuck's data from the set, as he too was recovering from an injury during his draft process and stuck out like a sore thumb.

    [​IMG]
    In the third round, the Force Players' AV average is 3.85. In the first round, the non-Force Players' AV average is 2.85. The data would suggest that if you deem a player worthy of a third round pick and he passes certain athletic thresholds, that he'd be better on average than players deemed as first rounders who don't.

    Considering the value different between a first and third round pick, yielding a 35 percent AV improvement by selecting a player two rounds later seems like a huge advantage.

    For future reference, here are this year's players who pass through the filter.
    Vic Beasley, Clemson
    Randy Gregory, Nebraska
    Alvin Dupree, Kentucky

    Owa Odighizuwa, UCLA
    Preston Smith, Miss St

    Danielle Hunter, LSU
    Frank Clark, Michigan
    Shaquille Riddick, WVU
    Marcus Rush, Michigan State

    Davis Tull, UT-Chattanooga

    Not all of them will be first rounders, or even third rounders, but late round players with these thresholds have hit before. For example, Cameron Wake, who spent time in Canada after a short stint in the NFL after his Penn State career, was a player who passed, and should have been able to flag down teams who were looking for a practice squad pass rusher if nothing else. Even the CFL's current sack leader, John Chick, passed through the filter.

    [​IMG]

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  2. Charlie Kelly

    Charlie Kelly Well-Known Member

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    What did I just read
     
  3. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    Those stats are meaningless because he doesn't define the difference between the "force" and the "non-force" players. He also compares "force" players and "non-force" players. That's like comparing apples and oranges. It seems like he's trying to make a point that it's better to take OLBs in the 3rd round than the 1st, and if so, that's utter BS. If he wants to be taken seriously, he needs to reveal what metrics go into his formula or filter to decide who is a "force" and "non-force" player. It also seems as if (at least according to what's above) that his formula or filter is based pretty much entirely on the Combine results, which as we know, is absurd.

    He pointed out a few anomalies, but failed to mention Charles Johnson being a "non-force" player by his formula, yet he is one of the top pass rushers in the NFL. Then there's Jadaveon Clowney. There are also "force" players who are not serious pass rushers. It's all rubbish imo.
     
  4. JStokes

    JStokes Well-Known Member

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    This is total bullshit and unsupported by the metrics.

    The filter rate is well over 30%

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