I agree with edge. I have Winston as my clear cut no.1 but I don't see much of a gap between Mariota and Hundley. I am judging solely on the field stuff and not concerning myself with Winston off the field
Jay Cutlers skill set is tantalizing. That doesn't make him a great QB, he's been a disappointment his whole career. Production definitely matters. Name me one QB that didn't crush his college competition and then went on to be great in the NFL. Jameis has more character red flags than anyone I can remember and he has alarming issues with his game. He was pedestrian to bad against the better teams he faced. He barely got through the inferior talented ACC. his stats show scary trends for example he only had one TD in half his games last year. I'm not saying I hate him or anything like that. What I'm saying is that it's foolish to spend a top ten pick on him.
Why do you think his production is a negative? The guy threw for 65 TDs in only 27 games, completed 66% of his passes, won a National Championship as a RS freshman and lost 1 game in his entire career? If that isn't production, Idk what is.. his college production on the field is by far the greatest part of his resume. They play better defense in the ACC than the Pac 12 by the way.. And lastly, his character concerns are off the field. They are in no way comparable to Cutler, who's concerns are on the field. On the field Winston is the consummate professional and the true leader of the team. There were times when his teammates were lost out there or starry eyed and looked to Winston, who righted the ship. I would compare him more to Ben Roethlisberger than Cutler...
By a far margin. It's funny what some folks consider a "weak" draft. If it doesn't include Andrew Luck then it's a weak draft. Actually, at that time, that 2012 draft had two massive prospects at the top--Luck and RG3, but in retrospect folks are now dumping on RG3 and are heralding Russell Wilson. Tannehill and Weeden as first rounders? Osweiler as a second rounder? Foles, Cousins and Lindley in rounds 3, 4 and 6? Was that a "strong" draft because of its depth or because of 2 huge prospects at the top? 2013 was horrendous. Every one of them. Was 2011 strong? Because of Cam? Or weak because that was followed up with a shit show of QBs in Locker, Gabbert, Ponder, perennial playoff loser and JAG Dalton, bloom is off the rose Kaep, Mallet, Stanzi, Yates and our very own retired Greg McElroy. Was 2010 strong? Because of Sam Bradford? Followed up by TebowLOL, Clausen, McCoy, Mike Kafka ?!? and Skelton and then 7 other JAGs who never played? Was 2009 strong? Because of Stafford? Followed by Sanchez, Freeman and Pat White and another 7 JAGs. That's EVERY draft going back to 2004. The only draft in recent memory that had quality AND quantity is 2014. This year's draft is weak. After the top 2 top shelf prospects. _
I base a lot of my opinions on the things I personally see. That's difficult to quantify sometimes as clearly my opinion is just a fan's opinion, but I trust myself. I've never once been on the Jay Cutler bandwagon. In fact, I've had a stronger opinion against him, based on what I saw with my own eyes, since he was drafted, than most other players in the league. In this regard, I find it difficult to identify with your comparison of Cutler and Winston. Winston at best is/was very immature. At worst, he's an awful human being that the Jets shouldn't even put on their draft board. I have no idea what kind of person Winston really is. There are no statistics for character. I'm hoping that Mac and Bowles have done their homework on him and his character. If they pass on him because of character I can't object. But I don't know that, nor even have any kind of educated guess about that, so I'm choosing to focus explicitly on the football side of things. I know character matters, and I've seen tangible evidence of Winston being a leader on the field, something I never saw out of Cutler. Winston is the most publicized character case in this draft, but he's also got celebrity status. For all we know there is a third round prospect who says all the right things and helps little old ladies cross the street before going home to do coke and have sex with sheep in a barn. My point is, we don't know what these people are in the real world, so I find it hard to evaluate it. From a football perspective, I see Winston as the real deal. I trust Mac and Bowles to figure the other part out and act accordingly.
Johnny Manziel threw for 63 TDs in 26 games and completed 69% of his passes... I'm not talking about pure stats, Sorry for the confusion. Which is the real Jameis? 2013 or 2014? Last year may be a warning sign so it shouldn't be brushed under the rug imo. He barely got through the ACC against non bowl teams who he should have crushed. Against out of conference D1 teams 62% 6TD's and 7 INT's. He had one and a half interceptions per game. These are bad signs. I compared Winston to Cutler because he can make a bunch of amazing throws and then a terrible one and when he's pressured his mechanics go out the window and just relies on his arm which will get him killed at the next level. He's really talented but he's too risky to be drafted so highly. Anyway the main point of this conversation thread is that if people only acknowledge these concerns and don't even weigh them too heavily how can Jameis still be valued so highly while at the same time they don't think Hundely deserves a second round grade, I think it's just cuz Jameis has the media hype.
I don't agree with you when it comes to Hundely, but I definitely agree with your analysis on Winston. I think he's a good prospect, but I believe he's being overrated at the moment and I was not impressed with much of his 2014 2015 tape. I hate the fact that evaluators are just glossing over his flaws on the field and acting as if they aren't fatal... his decision making and field vision concern me.
I like the pick because it's a low risk prospect. Draft him in the 3rd or 4th round and develop him and see how he turns out. The QBs in drafts are a crapshoot so you might as well pick one low and hope you get a stud. He could be the next Colin Kaepernick, Russell Wilson, or Joe Montana if you're insanely lucky. When it comes to QB, unless there's an obviously talented thrower like an Andrew Luck or Peyton Manning, draft low so you don't sacrifice your future and hope you got something special.
When I made the comment that this class is weak I was refering to the prospects outside of the top 10. Obviously Winston and Mariota make it a good class for the top picks. However for the rest of the draft the value is lacking greatly. There are less than 3 QB's that have 2nd or 3rd round grades. There will be tops 5 QBs taken before round 5. To me that is an extremely weak class.
Not sure about Hundley being better than Geno. Not at all after seeing a few games of him . He does not make good quick decisions - very indecisive from what I have seen....hesitates and unsure - Geno had better stats in college. There's nothing to convince that Hundley would be better suited to the Jets.
Geno's stats in college were a mirage. People need to stop perpetuating that myth. Not a Hundley fan but his career was superior to Geno's. _
really? So Hundley's stats tell you they are closer to being NFL calibre than Geno's? If that's the case he should be a 1st round selection. Somehow I don't think the NFL scouts are convinced of that: "He is a developmental project who needs a lot of work as a pocket passer for the NFL.".. "Entering the 2014 season, scouting sources across a number of NFL teams agreed that UCLA junior quarterback Brett Hundley was physically talented with upside, but they felt that he was inconsistent and overrated. Hundley did nothing to dispel that in the season opener against Virginia. He completed 20-of-33 passes for 242 yards and ran for 39 yards on 15 carries with a score. Hundley was then knocked out of the game against Texas with an injury to his non-throwing elbow (left)...." I'm not even a Geno fan. Bringing in Hundley is just adding another incompetent QB to the equation.
Stats don't have anything to do with anything. Hundley is a superior talent to Geno and that's not based on stats. I don't think Hundley is a first round talent but in a draft of just Hundley and Geno based on how they played in college I'd take Hundley every time. But you go look at your draft guidebooks to frame your opinion. That's fine. _
I liken him a lot to Geno. Lots of arm talent, didnt see enough in college, dont know if he has it between the ears.
Yeah I don't and I watched them both a lot. But folks are free to have differing opinions. My opinion on Geno from watching him at WVU is that his production in college was based a lot upon a mirage of shovel passes to Austin and Bailey. I don't know whether Hundley will be a good pro but I think he'll be much better than Geno. _
lol I know all about your opinion on Geno. And Mariota. And Bridgewater. And Carr. And like 8 other QB's.
http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/jets/gang-green-searches-signal-caller-upgrade-blog-entry-1.2179364 Source: Jets have private workout with UCLA quarterback Brett Hundley
