Eh, for me for it to be worth moving all the way down' to 20 and lose out on all of the elite talent. First regarding Foles, he would have to be part of the package but his value is limited. why? He's a UFA in 2016 so in essence he could be a 1 year rental who's had one good year and one decent year in his career and has never started more than 10 games in a season. As such his trade value is limited in a move of this magnitude. I've got to say it would have to be something like swap of firsts this year, 2nd and 3rd this year, 1st and third in 2016 and a 2nd in 2017. +Foles as a minimum type offer.
That would be an absurdly good trade for us. That's my dream scenario - draft day trade with Philly that involves Foles and multiple high round picks (this year and future).
The Jets should only be looking to trade the pick if they don't like Mariota. If they like him, take him. Simple as that. Foles isn't a bad fallback option if you dont think Mariota can play. But settling for mediocrity, when you have a chance to grab a potential franchise QB, would be a big mistake for the Jets.
I say we stock up on QBs. Get Glennon AND Mariotta. It's about time we addressed a serious concern at a skill position. No QB ? Then Marshall, Decker, Kerley, Amaro all go to waste with Mr. smith.
To move down 14 spots from the #6 AND for a potential franchise QB that's got to carry a big price tag or the Jets are better off staying at #6 regardless of if they take Mariota or not at that point. I mean the Rams got 3 firsts and a 2nd to move back 4 spots and still be in the top 10 of that draft class. Now granted Mariota doesn't have the hype that RGIII had but he does have a better overall collegiate resume than RG3 had going in to the draft. to move back 14 spots it's going to have to be an RG3 type of deal.
I'm pretty comfortable with it. In 2012 the debate was who was better RGIII or Luck and who should be #1. Granted most felt it was Luck but there was substantial talk about RGIII possibly being the better long term QB. No one is talking about Mariota being in Luck's category. There was no talk of RGIII falling out of the top 3 or 4.
But no one knew who RG3 was 2 and 3 years before he was drafted. And I never bought the BS that there was a legit discussion about Luck v RG3. Like Manning versus Ryan Leaf. _
Pretty much Exactly. I live deep in Eagles territory and have seen Foles play pretty much every Sunday and franchise QB dude is not. That 27-2 (or whatever it was) season he had is NEVER going to happen again for him. I'd be down for him as a starter if we had Mariota on the sideline, but seeing as that can't happen, I'd pass on him if Philly offered and draft Marcus. I mean if Philly is making an offer that can't be refused I can honestly see top brass in the Jets War-Room biting on it....but personally, I'm like Fuq outta here Chipper, we ain't helping you.
Who knew about who 3 years before the draft is irrelevant. What is relevant is the discussion in the draft where they came out and where they fall in the discussion in the current draft class as well as prior years draft classes. The fact he's generally being viewed as the 2nd best QB in the draft (if you eliminate off field issues) should say a lot.
Doesn't really say anything if the 2 QBs are exceptional. Which they are. But I look at where players are looked at for years, not those who exploded onto the scene in one season. _
There's no doubt that Mariota is a very promising QB prospect; he's physically gifted and talented and of course he has a chance to become a great NFL QB, or he wouldn't be rated so highly. I just don't put him anywhere close to that "Andrew Luck" or "Ryan Leaf" status - he's not viewed as a can't-miss prospect. (Obviously Leaf was a huge miss, which shows that even the highest rated QB prospects can fail.) The consensus among the draft experts seems to be that: Winston is relatively pro-ready but has major character and maturity concerns. And that Mariota has no issues with his character or maturity, and is very talented, but might be inaccurate and will definitely have a long learning process to adjust to most NFL offenses. He's still a reasonable top-6 pick, because of his upside and how great it would be if he does work out. But there's a significant and impossible-to-ignore chance that he won't be able to make the transition from his college offense to a regular NFL offense. Personally, I rarely watch FBS football games; and I only saw one or two Mariota games. The big championship, and maybe the game a week or two before that. All of my opinions on Mariota are based on what I've read the supposed experts say about him. (I avidly follow my college's FCS football program, but not the FBS.) Of course it's true that his WRs from 2014 were not first round picks; the draft hasn't happened yet... but scanning down the list of the top WR prospects I don't see any of them listed as coming from Oregon. Still, the Chip Kelly style offense that Oregon runs is known to wear down defenses and result in lots of extra offensive snaps per game. Some of his great stats are due to him being awesome, but some of that great production is also due to the scheme and how defenses aren't yet able to counter it effectively on a consistent basis. The most successful college QBs are usually on great teams and/or excellently-coached teams, so that's not a unique knock against Mariota by any stretch. It's just one of the reasons why star college QBs in general usually can't replicate that success at the next level. On the other hand, I think Mariota has much more value to a team like the Eagles. Since they run a Chip Kelly offense (under Chip Kelly), that has to be his best chance. He's already shown that he's fantastic for that kind of offense - he has not gotten the chance to show what he can do in a normal NFL style offense. He can come right out of the gates and be a quality starter on the Eagles, whereas with other teams he'd have more of an adjustment period. So it makes sense to me that the Eagles would value him more than other teams. I see a bunch of sort of "challenge statements" in your post, asking me to name the QBs that will be better than Mariota next year, asking me which of his WRs will be first round picks (which I addressed previously.) I don't really have to do any of that, my point was pretty general in nature - "only pick an early QB who you're sold on." If Mariota is not that guy, you don't pick him at #6. If he is, then you pick him. Right now I'm not hearing much to suggest that the Jets are especially high on Mariota so I'm assuming that they're not in love with him the way Chip Kelly is. There might or might not be better QBs than him in 2016. That's irrelevant to whether the Jets should draft him. We don't know how 2016 will pan out, but I suspect there will be other highly touted QB prospects next year. We have to wait for the 2015 season to unfold. There are usually multiple first-round quality QBs in any given year, and great NFL QBs are still drafted outside the top 10 overall picks. My way of looking at it is- you have to be sure before you make such a major decision. If you're not, then take the extra draft picks and figure it out next year. If you are sure, go ahead and draft him. I'm leaving it up to the coaches and GM to figure out if they like him enough or not - I don't know enough about evaluating QBs to make that call, and like I said I only watched 2 of his games. It could go either way, and I'm just basing my estimation on what I'm hearing in the media, that the Jets aren't enamored with Mariota. I could be wrong. If the Jets do end up drafting Mariota, for sure I'll be rooting for him to be a huge success here. But I'm just hoping that they would not "settle" for him if they weren't fully convinced he was the perfect guy for Chan Gailey's Jets offense.
And it's all speculation as to how they'll adapt to the NFL. And I will almost Guarantee that if all 4 QB's had come out in the same year, RGIII, Luck, Winston, and Mariota the order would have been Luck, Winston, RGIII and Mariota. Granted all 4 would have promising potential futures. Which brings us back to this year, it's all speculation as to who will be the better QB or if either of them will even adapt to the NFL.
Oh I'm pretty sure it does. Definition -provide a formal assurance or promise, especially that certain conditions shall be fulfilled relating to a product, service, or transaction. Pretty much exactly what I insinuated, thank you very much.
In order to "guarantee" something you have have some ability to effect the outcome (which you do not) or as the guarantor you need to be able to compensate the person that you gave the guarantee, either monetarily or through performance, if the outcome you guaranteed is not accomplished (which you cannot do). You're welcome. _
I hope Sanchez resigns with Eagles. Then if the Eagles trade up for Mariota (with anyone ahead of Jets), the Jets can trade something for Foles.
Response Part 1 Thanks for your thoughtful response. My questions weren't meant as "challenges" or to be uncivil. I was just trying to make the point that one has to be careful with general statements one makes (aka all the 1st round WRs Mariota threw to), and to try to get you to think through this from a different angle. I don't think Mariota is in Luck's class, but then he doesn't have to be. My point is to try to be realistic. Here are the facts regarding the QB position for the Jets as I see them: 1) We are pretty darned sure that Geno isn't the answer at QB and the Jets haven't had a quality starting QB since Chad, and he was very limited due to his injuries and lack of arm strength. (I don't count the one season rental of Brett Favre). 2) While Mariota isn't in Luck's class, he is a great prospect. He has the football IQ, arm, accuracy, quick decision making, mobility, work ethic and character to succeed. When the Jets drafted Geno, he wasn't in Luck's class. When they took Kellen Clemens, Chad, and every other QB they've drafted since Joe Willie, he wasn't in Luck's class. 3) The last time the Jets had the opportunity to draft a "sure thing" QB prospect in the first round was 1983. 4) They passed on a better prospect last year (2014) in Teddy Bridgewater. 5) In spite of what you claim in your bolded sentences (my bolding), every draft class doesn't have great QB prospects. 2013 is the latest example. There have been others recently. The year Luck was taken he was the only great QB prospect I believe. 6) Sure thing QBs are generally once in a generation type players. 7) QB is THE most important position on the team. A very good QB can carry a team, while a mediocre QB can drag a very good team down. 8) If Mac is any good as a GM and Bowles as a HC, the Jets aren't likely to be anywhere near 4-12 again for the forseeable future even with mediocre QB play, thus their chances at getting a "sure thing" QB are slim and none. 9) Yes, not all great QBs are taken in the first round, but the overwhelming percentage are. Most NFL teams are desperate for quality QB play. When a QB falls, that's because every team undervalued him or he has some issues that caused him to fall. This isn't a fact, but imo when you get a chance to take a great QB prospect, you have to do it, especially when your team has been as long without one as the Jets have. When you pass them up, you're tempting fate. I truly believe that a lot of the Jets' "bad luck" during their history is a result of Karma, i.e., the stupid, incompetent decisions and choices their owner, GM, Scouting Dept. and HCs have made that not only caused them to miss on great players at that time, but set them up for a downward spiral and missed opportunities. I totally disagree with your assertion that whether there might be a better QB prospect in the 2016 draft is irrelevant. It's MOST relevant when you need a QB. You can't think one year at a time as a GM. You have to look at potential succeeding draft classes to determine what your chances are of addressing needs, improving your team, etc. If you know, for example, that at this point in time you don't see another QB prospect in either the 2016 or 2017 draft classes who is as good as Winston or Mariota, then imo you'd better take Winston or Mariota if you get the chance to in 2015. If not, it could be somewhere between 2018 and 2020 before a QB comes along that you really like, and then you may not be in a position to draft him, and no team willing to allow you trade up regardless of what you're willing to offer. If that's the case, and Geno starts this year and falls flat on his face again, what in the heck are you gonna do? Quality starting QBs don't become available in FA. That leaves you in a desperate position having to trade for a mediocre QB, sign a jag mediocre QB, or reach for a QB prospect you're not that high on in the draft, or stick with Geno. IMO you can't run a team "hoping" there will be better QB prospects in the future and that you will have the opportunity to draft them. You have to do everything you can (within reason) to acquire that great QB prospect now. The NFL is constantly changing and evolving. New offensive and defensive formations come into vogue. The rules are changed. In their history, the Jets have always been behind the curve. They've been one of the last teams to try to catch up and be up to date. I believe that more and more NFL teams are going to start using spread offenses and looking for mobile QBs. Having a QB who can pick up first downs with his feet adds a whole other dimension to your offense and keeps opposing Ds off balance. It prevents them from pinning their ears back and going all out to sack the QB, because they know one missed tackle and they've given up a huge chunk of yardage, if not a TD. You yourself say that Mariota is worthy of a top 6 selection. Considering how long it has been since the Jets have had a quality QB, I would think that that alone would cause you to want the Jets to take Mariota. If he has that kind of talent, it's worth some risk. Of course he could wind up being yet another jag QB. With the qualities he has, I think the chances of that are exceedingly small, but there is a chance. For me, it's worth it. For me, it's better to take him and do everything I can to help him succeed, and if he fails, then it was worth the risk. Conversely, if you pass, and he goes to another team and becomes a top 5 QB in the NFL would you not be kicking yourself? Is it really worth taking that risk? There's risk with any player. Look at last year's draft. Houston needed a QB. They took Jadaveon Clowney, who was thought to be a "sure thing." He may never play again, and if he does, he may never have the same speed/ability that he did before he was injured. Any draft pick can get injured like Clowney did. They can simply fail to develop as expected. Some players have peaked by college, and have little upside left. Some players fail because they are drafted by a team whose system doesn't match the player's talents/skills. I think some players fail to develop because of personality conflicts or of the coaching style of the CS, or their inability to develop young players. My point being that just because someone plays a position other than QB doesn't mean they can't fail. Many people have projected that the Jets could take an OLB at #6. Randy Gregory has been mentioned by one media "expert" as having the potential to bust. Ray is small by NFL standards and he could easily bust. Fowler has a great motor and speed, but his production wasn't all that great in college. He could bust as well. 1st round WRs are well known to bust. I'd rather roll the dice on a QB who has the potential to be very, very good, if not great, than on a position player, particularly when my team hasn't had a great QB in almost 40 years.
