you are welcome to present your case. Brady eclipses Elways in every possible way - stats, mvps, wins, SBs, etc, etc. for me stats do matter somewhat. Elway's stat tell you alot of story. I lived in denver. elway is like a mythical hero to them. elway to me always had his struggles in games. homeric struggle. every game is epic. it's exciting. brady? brady is boring. pats and brady marches down and gets the job done. it's not a spectacle. but if you compare the totality of what they've done in this league, brady has done more. brady was always considered top 2 QB in his era. elway at one point was a distant 4th even behind guys like kelly. always was behind montana and marino for sure. without those 2 SBs at the end, elway's career is nothing more than jim kelly's. IMO, elway was a great physical specimen who wasn't great at small things. but he was an ultimate hero. people's champ. but why did his team lose in the SBs? put simply he can't do it by himself. it was simple to beat elways team. just beat elway. game over. that broncos team had no business playing in the SB against the niners. it's like pats playing jags. and i'm not even talking about talent level. yes, that broncos team was inferior to niners. football is never about forcing your will to others. will power is overrated. it's about preparation, knowing the defense, and executing your offense. this Pats team can march up to any great defenses and score 7. i don't care how great the defense is, brady/bb will solve them. and that happens because brady and his crew play in unison. brady knows exactly where his WRs are going. brady knows their next move. why? because they prepare together and mastered each other. Why did 2 rookies last year struggle? why did chad ocho cinco struggle? because pats run a complex offense. brady doesn't know where KT is going. where dobson is going. they are doing calculus and these inept WRs are doing algebra. and that's why Brady/BB will go down as the greatest. 2 minds are greater than 1. and they adjust in game. it's never about pressing the super hero mode. this isn't NBA. football is a thinking man's game.
I don't have to do anything of the sort. Elway was a better pure QB than Brady. Sounds like you've made up a bunch of fake criteria and analysis to prop up your boy Brady. I'm glad you like him. He was not better than Elway. Holy fuck. You've invented an awesomely stupid set of immeasurable criteria to cornhole Brady into the GOAT. Which he's not. Montana was a much better QB than Brady. As was Marino. Then Elway and if you have some incredibly stupid criteria why Brady is better than Unitas, than knock yourself out with a 5000 word post. I won't read it. But if it makes you feel better, please indulge yourself. Btw, I actually think Rodgers is a better pure QB than Brady but I'm not big enough of a dick to put him above Brady yet. But he'll surpass him. Note: I didn't read either of the two posts you made. Sophomoric at best and pedantic at worst. _
criteria such as pocket awareness presnap ability accuracy footwork 3rd down efficiency qb rating SB wins mvps etc, etc. all favor Brady too. you look at every possible criteria, and brady comes out on top because of his superior decision making, clutch factor, and accuracy. again, no matter how you slice it, brady comes on top when you compare Brady vs. elway or marino. Montana is arguable. i have no problem you taking montana over brady. but elway? marino? no and no. only thing elway has on brady is his running ability and his ability to throw on the run. but we all know brady is a statue back there. brady pick defenses apart 1 way. and that's his blessing. if brady ran around like some of quick footed players, then i'm sure brady would not have had a long career. what brady brings to the table is unique. his style of play improves oline. peyton too. pats oline get bailed out alot because brady's ability to read the D and getting read of football so quick. it's not a coincidence that both brady and manning are one of the least sacked QB in the league for a long time. i think elway is big ben mold. IMO, elway is much closer to big ben than brady.
and go to steelers forum and try arguing big ben vs. elway. i've participated in that debate and many believe big ben is better than elway. IMO, big ben has a chance to top elway.
8 wins 10 losses in the playoffs. that really hurts his GOAT candidacy. and not winning the SB is what hurts him the most. if marino won a ring, then i would've viewed him as peyton manning's equal. a famous coach once said 'you play to win the game.' at the end of the day, that's the most important criteria.
More made up criteria to put your butt boy on top. Brady was never as good as Marino. Brady was never as good as Elway. Just be happy with your opinion. You aren't convincing anyone. _
you are entitled to your opinion. but maybe you should tell us why marino was better. that's the disappointing part. and what is your criteria? my criteria is pretty similar to many experts' criteria. i'm not smart enough to make up a new criteria. imo, brady has a great chance to end all debate by winning 5SB rings. and even then i'm sure you will have elway over brady because you already made up your mind on brady.
unfortunately, there are many people in various forums having the same blind faith. brady is the most hated football player ever for various reasons. i think when brady retires people will go easy on him. but right now, it's very easy to hate brady and pats.
You see, I'm not a Patriot fan so I started watching football before 2000. I don't think you understand what this discussion is about. Here, or elsewhere on the internet or at the water cooler. It's not the debate club where you trot out your list of "criteria" that every "expert' uses, check a few boxes then determine a winner. It's an opinion discussion. If you feel Brady is the GOAT, I'm truly happy for you. Rest easy in that opinion, If you need your expert's "criteria" to make you feel even better about your opinion, please indulge yourself. Having watched them ALL play, in my opinion, Montana, Elway and Marino were all BETTER QBs than Brady. Obviously, in the case of Elway and Marino, not as accomplished as Brady's teams were, but they were better quarterbacks than Brady. But thank you for allowing me to be "entitled to my own opinion". That was very gracious of you. If you think I hate Brady as a football player more than I hated Marino as a football player, then you are wrong. I hate Brady because he's a whiny douche playing for a cheating scumbag of a franchise, not because of the player he is. Marino was a better pure QB. And I HATED him for it. Hated him at Pitt and was crushed we didn't draft him, only to go to our mortal enemy (Don Shula nefariously starting that coke rumor--which was probably true). Hell, I had to change the pick of my youngest son's name the weekend he was born because of the Fake Spike game. _
I hate Brady as a player more than Marino b/c we had success against Dan where we have had very little against Brady and we never had to watch Marino win a SB. I actually enjoyed watching Marino more b/c outside of the first few years I never worried about him winning a SB and we stunk most of those years so he wasn't preventing us from winning div titles or getting to the playoffs. NY Jets vs. Tom Brady: 5-21 regular season 1-1 postseason never swept Brady in any single season were swept 7 times NY Jets vs. Dan Marino: 14-16 regular season 0-0 postseason(closest was 1991 week 17 game where winner went to playoffs and we beat Miami at Miami to make it) swept Marino 4 times were swept 5 times
people hate winners, he will be appreciated when he retires like Montana who was underappreciated in the 80s.
so you are basing your opinion on your 'expertise' your own 'eye test'. cool. for me GOAT QB is what QB has done in the playoffs. I value the regular season greatness as well(i'm very high on peyton manning), but playoff is what separates THE GOAT from top 5-10 players. i'll take this below stat over any eye test. Most games played - 29 Most games started for a quarterback - 29 Most touchdown passes - 53 Most yards gained - 7,345 Most passes completed - 683 Most passes attempted - 1,085 Most division titles for a starting quarterback - 12 Most playoff wins for a starting quarterback - 21 Most NFL conference championship appearances for a starting quarterback - 9 Most NFL conference championship wins a starting quarterback - 6 Most touchdown passes in SB - 13 Most yards gained in SB- 1,605 Most passes completed in SB - 164 Most passes attempted in SB - 247 Most passes completed in first half of a single in SB - 20 Most passes completed in a single in SB - 37 Because at the end of the day, it's what-have-you-done-in-this-league-debate. if Michael Jordan never won those 6 rings, do we really call him the GOAT? if gretzky never won those rings, do you really call him the GOAT? if Tiger woods never won those majors do we really call him one of the greatest? what happens if Lebron never wins any ring? do we put him in top 10? what happens if Joe montana doesn't even sniff SB? what do we call him? a career choker? if kelly somehow win those 4 SBs in a row, how would we view him today? top 3 maybe? IMO brady is clearly established himself as all time great with his hardwares, stats, and his impact on the game. brady has 3-4 more years left in him. and he will pad this great stats he has accumulated. elway to me was always 3rd or 4th best in his era and a guy 'who couldn't get it done'. fortunately he won 2 rings which cemented him as one of the all time great. i was never impressed with elway's game. it was very much big ben like. i was always impressed with big ben's 'stuff'. but never was impressed with his game. elway got the stuff for sure. but you can obviously see the major flaw in his game. marino? he just didn't have 'it' in the big games. alot like peyton. that whining douche you hate has dominated the league better than anybody who dominated the league. yeah, it's easy to hate brady. i get that. and frankly, i like it this way because i think this hate gives them the edge. i wonder how you would view brady if brady ends up winning 2 more SBs with 2 more SB mvps under his belt. probably not as good as elway or marino. probably.
You seem to like to use playoff performance a lot so how can you do that and be very high on Peyton Manning?
I am kind of sick about debating great QBs from other teams, it would be really nice if we finally got one of these types. the only time we came close the guy was damaged goods before he got here and his knees gave out a few years in.
