http://www.onlythelikud.org.il/speech-to-congress/ Sounds to me like shit is about to get real serious.
I may sound anti-Semitic, but politically, economically, religiously, and morally, we can't continue to support his country without repercussions in our ever changing world. Think about it, before you all try to lynch me.
Honestly people like him are exactly why there is no progress in relations between the West and the Arab world. I'm not discounting Israel's right to defend themselves in anyway because if they are attacked they A) should be able to do whatever they feel is required to defend themselves short of killing innocents and B) they shouldn't have to consult with the US to defend themselves, Egypt bombed ISIS in Libya 2 weeks ago and never informed the US of anything. The US shouldn't be the authority on the defense of any nation in the world except our own. That being said Netanyahu acting like he and Sharon weren't prognosticators and don't take opportunities to rile up their opponents is disingenuous as well. It's a shame Rabin was assassinated (by an Israeli too) because I felt with him there was a real chance at progress as he and Arafat had already started to make some. Maybe once Arafat dies we go back to hell in a hand basket but maybe not. I'll just say this, if Israel feels they need to attack Iran as a sort of defense then the US has absolutely no right to stop them but if Israel does they better have some sort of proof and real proof that what they dis is justified. I find it important to point out that the Saudis are also stirring the pot, they offered Israel use of their airspace to bomb Iran because we all the civil war in Syria was started as a proxy war between Iran and Saudi Arabia.
You never see Israel helping America defend itself, yet our country is suppose to stick our neck out for their sake due to religious ties? I don't think so. Let Israel bomb Iran over nukes. War hawks in our country are so tied to religion it isn't funny. If we really wanna be religious about the matter, Christians don't owe the Jews anything. Wasn't it a bunch of Jews who decided Christ's fate? I'm just quoting history here, I don't really have a dog in this fight.
I was really hoping to catch it live. Just watched it now. Great speech, that doesn't help the president's goal of merely being able to crow about getting a "deal done." The Obama people just played this so horribly wrong. Netanyahu has rocked it a couple times on the floor of the U.N., so they should have expected the guy to come off as strong and to knock it out of the park. Everyone in the administration, with the possible (and surprising) exception of Samantha Power, came off as a bunch of petulant amateurs. Likewise, the boycotting members of congress, who thought they were making some sort of Grand Statement, but would have sent a much stronger if they were in the room and sitting on their hands. I don't know how this plays in Israeli elections, but if it smashes the latest rumored deal into little tiny bits, I'd call that progress for our foreign policy and for the region.
Please elaborate further. How will helping Israel help the greater good of our country if it means war in Iran? You realize Russia, China, North Korea, etc..... Are waiting for us to spread ourselves a little more thin, right? If it came to nuclear war in Israel, where would the rest of the world be? Not trying to sound like the NEO-CON religious expert Jack Van Impe, but Armageddon?
War? Geezus. How about a little foreplay first?! And this notion that all we're doing is "helping Israel" is strange. Like you, the president seems to think that any deal is better than no deal. Iran is waving its private parts in the face of the U.N., it's resolutions, and it's inspectors, and we're prepared to (a) trust them and (b) reward them by lifting all economic sanctions and take a leap of faith that Iran will morph into a responsible regime within ten years. Nuts. During the 2008 campaign, Joe Biden had a slip of the tongue when he talked about having a policy of containment with Iran, and everyone was up in arms. He quickly corrected himself. Six years later, we're trying to bull through a policy worse than containment - we're negotiated ourselves temporary containment. Temporary containment with a country that has pressed forward with nuclear development in the face of the entire international community's opposition; a country that won't allow inspections to verify where its nuclear program is at; a country that has repeatedly stated its goal of annihilating Israel, refers to the U.S. as the Great Satan and poses an open threat to every other nation in the region. But yeah, sure, let's sign a deal that allows nuclear development and trust that they just want build a couple of nuclear energy facilities. Despite sitting on goddamn ocean of crude oil. I'm sure it will all work out fine.
So what do YOU propose? War, a bullshit agreement that you say rewards Iran or total acquiescence seem to be the only three choices. Which would you choose, and why?
Why on earth would you limit the options to just those three? And why would one of those have to be a "bullshit agreement"? Because that's all Iran will give us? If so, only because this has been bungled so badly. The president tells us that sanctions (which he opposed) have worked, but tells us that continued sanctions will push Iran to advance its nuclear development faster. Except, Iran has secretly continued development (they were twice caught) and has been refusing good faith inspections. Why would we just accept this conduct and negotiate in that prism? Iran needs a deal too. Iran needs economic sanctions lifted. The current proposal ends in ten years and passes the problem on to a later day, apparently based on some weird expectation that, in that ten-year period, Iran will have lost its interest in exterminating Israel and exporting terror all around the region. If all we did was negotiate out the sunset provision, THAT would be a better deal. Maybe the best we could get, given the amateur hour this administration has turned this into. Regardless, artificial deadlines aside, sanctions continue and we keep working on a deal that actually restricts nuclear development.
I propose we stay the fuck out of it, if Israel wants to bomb them into kingdom come who are we to stop them? The Saudis are already on their side. Notice you don't have countries like Saudi Arabia, Algeria, Libya, UAE, Qatar and Bahrain having issues with the Israelis? You have Iran, Lebanon, Syria and the Palestinians? Why does this happen? It's because one sect of Islam hates Israel and the other hates the other sect of Islam. It's the old the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Saudi Arabia hates Iran and Iran hates Israel. So of course the Saudis will stop the pot and allow Israel try and persuade Israel to bomb Iran. Why? Because it's in their best interest to allow someone else to do their dirty work. All of the bullshit in Syria started because both Saudi Arabia and Iran got in a pissing match to gain control of Syria because of it's strategic location on the Med. Obviously it wasn't for territory but the political influence with their government. Assad was pro Iran and had no interest in Saudi Arabia.
Well obviously if diplomacy can resolve things peacefully it should be used as a 1st option but my point is more along the lines of where does the US get off telling Israel how to handle their business? We shouldn't, I don't think Iran with a nuclear weapon is a good thing for anybody which is why despite my uncertainty about it I hope they are being honest about the reasons they want to build the nuclear reactors. I'd say I'm about 75-25 they want to build a bomb and if they do then the US and more importantly Obama fucked up big time.
It seems to me that Israel was telling us how to handle the sanctions negotiations and they're probably right. I don't see where the US is telling them what to do. Maybe I'm missing something.
Deep down, I really like this. We have this flawed idea that Israel sits smack-dab in the middle of a crapload of neighboring countries and governments that want it blown into the clouds. But, you said it real well. There's so much more going on. It's all these terror groups with loose (or not so loose) ties to certain governments and freely cross over national borders - they're what stands in the way of a respectable sense of order in the region. It's just easier to point at Israel first. As much as I wish we could step off and start all over and unfuck it all, unfortunately, it's the goddamn United Nations at the root of all the Iran sanctions. The U.N. - where the daily mission is to fuck with world order and where antisemitism runs naked and free. We're just stuck with what we've got.
The problem with that is that if Israel bombs the shit out of Iran, or anyone for that matter, they will be doing so with U.S. planes, U.S. bombs, U.S. equipment and U.S. $$$$ support.... So whether we in the U.S. want to stay out of it or not, we will be brought into it no matter what by them.
There was a report out the other day that the US had threatened to shoot down Israeli war planes if they were seen attacking Iran. It was in the Washington Times but was originally reported in a Kuwaiti newspaper. I don't think it's true but I do think Israel briefs us before they do things like this. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/mar/1/report-obama-threatened-shoot-down-israeli-warplan/
I did see that and kind of wrote it off as ridiculous BS. If it is true then Obama is worse than I had ever imagined. I would guess that tight allies usually brief each other on things like starting to bomb a huge country like Iran.
Yes and no.... Jordan, UAE, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and a ton of other nations in the Middle East are buying US Warplanes. Our companies will sell to whoever the fuck wants to buy them. It's not our fault Iran is in bed with the Ruskies and is buying 30 year old crop dusters from the Russians. It's the same where I'm at in Taiwan, the US is selling planes, ships and technology to both the Philippines and Taiwan who have a serious gripe with the big bully on the mainland. In the same article I linked to Natso there was a line about how the Saudis are willing to allow Israel to bomb Iran. Now you tell me if Israel sat smack dab in the middle of a group of nations that wanted to see it blown off the map why the hell would the Saudis allow them to use their airspace to bomb Iran? Because the Saudis view Israel as a potential ally (in the not so technical term of it) to take their real enemy down a notch. Yes it's not just because as the Saudis want to see some progress made on the Palestine issue but I think most people do. I saw something really crazy yet true.... who has the US truly liberated since WWII? The Vietnamese? No we fucked them over, the Koreans? Nope they still sit with a nuclear threat to the north and west of them. Iraq... Ha, those poor bastards are worse off now then they were under Saddam.
