Deflate-gate

Discussion in 'National Football League' started by 74, Jan 19, 2015.

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  1. JStokes

    JStokes Well-Known Member

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    Heard Ian Rapoport on the FAN earlier and he's saying the investigation into the Patriots illegal deflation of footballs likely won't be completed before the combine.

    I'm smelling another coverup.

    If they were innocent, the league would immediately say so. I think they are waiting until there is an on-filed news cycle before some half-assed face saving gesture is made by Goodell for Kraft.

    _
     
  2. Unhappyjetsfan

    Unhappyjetsfan Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    And since the rule clearly says gloves can legally have a tacky substance on them, I'm going to require an actual statement from the league to the contrary; not just a "I really want it to be true, so I'm going to say it's true over and over again and hope someone starts believing me" declaration from you.

    And for the benefit of all, here's the rule (again):

    (i) Adhesive or slippery substances on the body, equipment, or uniform of any player; provided, however, that players may wear gloves with a tackified surface if such tacky substance does not adhere to the football or otherwise cause handling problems for players.



    That's what it says ... and then Section 4, Article 4, SubSection (i) specifically lays out an exception to the adhesive (and slippery) substances rule ...

    (i) Adhesive or slippery substances on the body, equipment, or uniform of any player; provided, however, that players may wear gloves with a tackified surface if such tacky substance does not adhere to the football or otherwise cause handling problems for players.


    You'll notice that in the section you provided "hand towels" are also considered part of the uniform, yet the league expressly ruled (the rule was subsequently changed) that the hand towels the Chargers were using with the sticky powder on them was legal under the NFL rulebook. If what you were arguing had any basis in fact, the Chargers use of the towels would have been an illegal equipment violation under this same policy; it was not.
     
    #4062 Unhappyjetsfan, Feb 12, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2015
  3. EmbraceTheHate

    EmbraceTheHate Active Member

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    Citation given:

    (i) Adhesive or slippery substances on the body, equipment, or uniform of any player;

    Section 4, Article 1:
    The term uniform, as used in this policy, applies to every piece of equipment worn by a player, including helmet, shoulder pads, thigh pads, knee pads, and any other item of protective gear, and to every visible item of apparel, including but not limited to pants, jerseys, wristbands, gloves, stockings, shoes, visible undergarments, and accessories such as headwear, worn under helmets and hand towels

    Game. Set. Match.

    Move on... you lost this one. It's ok... live to fight another day.
     
  4. Unhappyjetsfan

    Unhappyjetsfan Well-Known Member

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    Are you surprised? Most people said this was what was going to happen the day after the Cheats vs. Colts game.
     
    NY Jets68 likes this.
  5. New England Patriots

    New England Patriots Well-Known Member

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    This is the same guy who read this and said that there wasn't enough proof that stickum was illegal:

    Uniform

    Foreign Substances On Body/Uniform

    A player may not use foreign substances (e.g., stickum or slippery compounds) on his body or uniform. Because such a violation affects the integrity of the competition and can give a team an unfair advantage, game officials will check randomly selected offensive and defensive linemen for foreign substances as they leave the locker room prior to the game and prior to the beginning of the second half. If a violation is detected, the player’s jersey will be confiscated immediately, and the jersey must be replaced and in compliance before the player may participate in the game.
    During the game, if a player is detected with a foreign substance on his body or uniform, he will be suspended from the game immediately for at least one play, and his
    team will also be charged a timeout. The jersey in question will be confiscated by game officials, and must be replaced and in compliance before the player may re-enter the game. The involved player(s) will be subject to a significant fine and the club may also be subject to disciplinary action.


    https://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/2011-league-discipline.pdf

    It's a manual that is given out to all players and coaches prior to the season.
     
  6. Unhappyjetsfan

    Unhappyjetsfan Well-Known Member

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    Typically, when one makes a comment like "Game. Set. Match." it means they made a winning argument. Apparently you didn't read Section 4, Article 4, SubSection (i) - which makes an explicit and express exception for tacky substances used on gloves. Here it is in case you missed it:


    (i) Adhesive or slippery substances on the body, equipment, or uniform of any player; provided, however, that players may wear gloves with a tackified surface if such tacky substance does not adhere to the football or otherwise cause handling problems for players.
     
  7. BeastBeach

    BeastBeach Banned

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    Lol the towel thing again. Already covered. You are just living in your own reality at this point
     
  8. Unhappyjetsfan

    Unhappyjetsfan Well-Known Member

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    And, again, how does any of this lessen the culpability of the Cheaties deflating footballs below league requirements, after they had been checked and approved by the officials, to their own benefit and in contravention of the rules?
     
  9. BeastBeach

    BeastBeach Banned

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    Tacky substance meaning the tacky substance the gloves are made from. Are you bananas or what?
     
  10. Unhappyjetsfan

    Unhappyjetsfan Well-Known Member

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    You mean the completely legal (as expressly stated by the league) use of the towels with the sticky substances by the Chargers?
     
  11. nyjunc

    nyjunc 2008 TGG Bryan Cox "Most Argumentative" Award Winn

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    have someone read it and explain it to you.
     
  12. Unhappyjetsfan

    Unhappyjetsfan Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    The actual rule says nothing about that ...

    (i) Adhesive or slippery substances on the body, equipment, or uniform of any player; provided, however, that players may wear gloves with a tackified surface if such tacky substance does not adhere to the football or otherwise cause handling problems for players.


    Yours is a claim made with no basis in fact, because you don't like what the actual rule (provided above) says.
     
  13. New England Patriots

    New England Patriots Well-Known Member

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    Uniform

    Foreign Substances On Body/Uniform

    A player may not use foreign substances (e.g., stickum or slippery compounds) on his body or uniform. Because such a violation affects the integrity of the competition and can give a team an unfair advantage, game officials will check randomly selected offensive and defensive linemen for foreign substances as they leave the locker room prior to the game and prior to the beginning of the second half. If a violation is detected, the player’s jersey will be confiscated immediately, and the jersey must be replaced and in compliance before the player may participate in the game.
    During the game, if a player is detected with a foreign substance on his body or uniform, he will be suspended from the game immediately for at least one play, and his
    team will also be charged a timeout. The jersey in question will be confiscated by game officials, and must be replaced and in compliance before the player may re-enter the game. The involved player(s) will be subject to a significant fine and the club may also be subject to disciplinary action.


    https://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/2011-league-discipline.pdf
     
  14. New England Patriots

    New England Patriots Well-Known Member

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    Uniform

    Foreign Substances On Body/Uniform

    A player may not use foreign substances (e.g., stickum or slippery compounds) on his body or uniform. Because such a violation affects the integrity of the competition and can give a team an unfair advantage, game officials will check randomly selected offensive and defensive linemen for foreign substances as they leave the locker room prior to the game and prior to the beginning of the second half. If a violation is detected, the player’s jersey will be confiscated immediately, and the jersey must be replaced and in compliance before the player may participate in the game.
    During the game, if a player is detected with a foreign substance on his body or uniform, he will be suspended from the game immediately for at least one play, and his
    team will also be charged a timeout. The jersey in question will be confiscated by game officials, and must be replaced and in compliance before the player may re-enter the game. The involved player(s) will be subject to a significant fine and the club may also be subject to disciplinary action.


    https://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/2011-league-discipline.pdf
     
  15. New England Patriots

    New England Patriots Well-Known Member

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    Uniform

    Foreign Substances On Body/Uniform

    A player may not use foreign substances (e.g., stickum or slippery compounds) on his body or uniform. Because such a violation affects the integrity of the competition and can give a team an unfair advantage, game officials will check randomly selected offensive and defensive linemen for foreign substances as they leave the locker room prior to the game and prior to the beginning of the second half. If a violation is detected, the player’s jersey will be confiscated immediately, and the jersey must be replaced and in compliance before the player may participate in the game.
    During the game, if a player is detected with a foreign substance on his body or uniform, he will be suspended from the game immediately for at least one play, and his
    team will also be charged a timeout. The jersey in question will be confiscated by game officials, and must be replaced and in compliance before the player may re-enter the game. The involved player(s) will be subject to a significant fine and the club may also be subject to disciplinary action.


    https://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/2011-league-discipline.pdf
     
  16. BeastBeach

    BeastBeach Banned

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    I mean the towels made with that substance and banned by the league after that game.

    Just stop you look stupid
     
  17. Unhappyjetsfan

    Unhappyjetsfan Well-Known Member

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  18. nyjunc

    nyjunc 2008 TGG Bryan Cox "Most Argumentative" Award Winn

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    [​IMG]
     
  19. Unhappyjetsfan

    Unhappyjetsfan Well-Known Member

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    What you have posted is a league clarification of rules given to teams so they can understand the rulebook. The actual rule (the one posted in the rulebook) expressly provides an exception to the league adhesive and slippery substances rule. It is located here, and allows the use of tacky substances on gloves:

    (i) Adhesive or slippery substances on the body, equipment, or uniform of any player; provided, however, that players may wear gloves with a tackified surface if such tacky substance does not adhere to the football or otherwise cause handling problems for players.

    Here, I'll work it out for you for free (Don't worry, I'm a lawyer, I do this for imbeciles all the time) ...

    Was there an adhesive substance on the equipment or uniform? Yes

    Was the adhesive substance only on gloves worn by the player? Yes

    Did the tacky substance adhere to the football or otherwise cause handling problems for the players? There's no evidence of this suggested by anyone.

    CONCLUSION: No rule violation
     
  20. New England Patriots

    New England Patriots Well-Known Member

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    Uniform

    Foreign Substances On Body/Uniform

    A player may not use foreign substances (e.g., stickum or slippery compounds) on his body or uniform. Because such a violation affects the integrity of the competition and can give a team an unfair advantage, game officials will check randomly selected offensive and defensive linemen for foreign substances as they leave the locker room prior to the game and prior to the beginning of the second half. If a violation is detected, the player’s jersey will be confiscated immediately, and the jersey must be replaced and in compliance before the player may participate in the game.
    During the game, if a player is detected with a foreign substance on his body or uniform, he will be suspended from the game immediately for at least one play, and his
    team will also be charged a timeout. The jersey in question will be confiscated by game officials, and must be replaced and in compliance before the player may re-enter the game. The involved player(s) will be subject to a significant fine and the club may also be subject to disciplinary action.


    https://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/2011-league-discipline.pdf

    ----

    Bolded it so you could find it easier. I would expect a lawyer to be able to have slightly better reading comprehension, though.
     
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