most patriot fans just started watching football in 2000, perhaps except for a few hundred old timer fans
That" top 5 all time HC" was a COMPLETE FAILURE w/o Tom Brady. Dungy led TB out of the dark ages and led them to a title game, BB never did that w/ another team. the terrible defenses that allowed LESS points per game in postseason than the "great" Pats Ds. Manning has ALWAYS had much more talent and has always come up short w/ that talent. He's better than Manning w/o a doubt. Montana and Marino is debatable. The Eagles and Panthers were better than Denver and Cincy. and b/c he led one of the greatest drives in SB history after that great D blew a 14 pt 4th qtr lead. Not taking anything away from Joe, he is worthy of #1 but Brady leading his team from down 10 against an all time great D w/ Julian Edelman as his top WR is more impressive than the great drive vs. Cincy against that Cincy D w/ Jerry Rice as his top WR. I can't believe there are people that think Peyton Manning is better than Brady.
That Bengals team was pretty good and while you can't really compare eras I do think they were better than the Panthers, maybe not the Eagles but they would have beaten Carolina. Boomer a much better QB, he had better WR's, a decent RB and a pretty decent defense. I'd also give Sam Wyche the coaching edge over John Fox. I would rate Brady ahead of Manning but I am basing it on how Manning has on many occasions not delivered in the big games. Yeah it's a team game but there is no position in any sport more important than the QB outside of maybe the goalie in hockey and that's really just subjective so to say ahhh the Colts didn't give Manning the best talent is crap. Manning had Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne 2 decent TE's in Pollard and Tamne and Edge. Not terrible by any stretch. But if you take the championship aspect out of it I think from a purely playing the position standpoint I'm not sure I can say that Brady is better. I understand that when evaluating the all time greats you have to include playoffs and championships but from being better at their position standpoint it's not as cut and dry if that may seem.
Strawman. Nothing I said even remotely intimates that the system makes it easy. But being the greatest QB ever is an argument of ability and skill. You want to say he is the most successful - no doubt. But best, that is a discussion of ability and the throws he is tasked to make are the most relevant element of that discussion. You can't argue dig deeper when you are going to the most superficial possible argument.
Unhappyjetsfan said: ↑ Dungy led TB out of the dark ages and led them to a title game, BB never did that w/ another team. I think Dungy is all fluff, Mr. Nice guy, and preacher all wrapped in one. A good FB coach NOT. Tampa had a ton of talent and they fired his ass. Gruden comes in and immediately wins the Super Bowl. 85-27 with Colts and one Super Bowl ring. Had teams that won 13 and 14 games and didn't even reach the big dance. ................................................ Moving on: anyway, I like many others, have no warm feelings about the Patriots. But I never see why people get into great debates about who is greater than another. It can't be done. It is about having the chemistry, riding into the playoffs with no or few injuries, not only solid players, but a competent coaching staff. Like it or not, The Patriots were in 6 SB's with BB and TB and they have a place in history. I see nothing gained trying to compare them (coach or QB) to the great Dallas teams, the Pittsburgh dynasty, or the SF glory years, or the Lombardi championship years at Green Bay. Each of those teams, players, and coaches WERE GREAT in their era. The NFL has evolved and will continue to do so. Different philosophies, different rules, free agency...the list goes on and on.
John Fox made 2 a SB w/ Jake Delhomme, I think I'd give him the edge over Wyche. You have to remember how much stronger the 49ers were compared to their competition in the AFC. In the Pats SBs they weren't head and shoulders more talented than any of the SB teams they faced. Peyton has had elite weapons around him since day 1 in this league. Brady had that for a year or 2 w/ Moss. we can't take out postseason, we also can't take out the majority of Peyton's career in domes w/ elite talent to throw to. Fantasy #s don't impress me, making plays in big spots does and no one has done that better than Brady in his era. I rate a guy like Marino in my top 5 even though he never won a SB b/c I don't feel he had SB talent around him the majority of his career and w/ Manning it's the opposite. I feel he had SB caliber teams the majority of his career and to only make 3 and only win 1 isn't good enough to be in this discussion. Peyton is obviously an all time great but I do not believe he belongs in the discussion for greatest of all time.
It's a results business and in his era no one has better results w/ the amount of talent he has had. you can make an argument for a number of different players as greatest of all time, I choose Brady for many of the reasons I have stated. if this system was why he won then why aren't more using it and making their own Tom Brady's?
and then they stopped winning. 13 and 14 wins and didn't reach big dance b/c of his QB who has choked under 4 different HCs in Jan/Feb. Is Dungy on a Lombardi level? No but he's a HOF caliber HC. It's fun to compare different teams and players, there may not be an official right or wrong answer but we can come up w/ our own reasons for it.
Obviously Brady doesn't retire after this year, but does this win cool his fire at all? Father time will eventually catch up with him no matter how much longer he wants to play, but is the end near? Let's all hope so.
he doesn't seem like the type to have his fire cooled, he strikes me as a Jeter/Jordan/Kobe type that burns to win all the time.
But now that I really think about it none of this matters in the real world. If he takes the title so what. Sent from my LG-LS720 using Tapatalk
What is more impressive then Brady being able to be so effective is how good his offensive line holds up. Brady is great...To me that fucker is top 5, but he is not better then Montana. It can be all subjective because it is a different era and QB's played a different way. Montana mastered the west coast offense and was incredible in his run. Brady has been consistent a long time, but so has Johnny Unitas. Johnny U was a master of his era. Won 4x championships and multiple MVPs. Dude was incredible even though players back then didnt throw the same stats as nowadays.
Quarterback is a position on a football team. To me, Peyton Manning and his 5 NFL MVP's are a sign that he is the most valuable player at the most valuable position in the NFL. It is not rocket science. Manning's teams have never been that great, unfortunately. Brady's teams have always been great with a great coach. I feel like I am taking crazy pills when others can not see such a simple thing. Team sport guys.
This is a very tough argument. Brady is awesome, hands down. Talented as hell and smart as hell, but can you really crown him "the best of all time" with a history of cheating? Now, in no means am I taking away from Brady's talent, but Spygate and now Deflategate, is it really fair to give him that title? Would he have won without the Spygate scandal? That's a question we will never know. Brady is amazing, he really is, but these questions need to be asked when discussing the greatest QB of all time.
When it's over that's when I'll belive it. Seeing is believing. Since 200fn1 the nightmare that never ends.
