Assuming what you are saying is true, which I am NOT, that would make me gullible, not a "defender" of Coach K.
all you have to do is pay attention. all the evidence is there exiling Pete Gaudet bashing players that he didn't think should leave early multiple players cheap shots at end of losses cursing out fans after court storming Gerald Henderson incident staring walk ons for the sole purpose of fouling Chris Paul the list goes on and on
OK, I understand that you have provided a LOT of evidence, but I never looked into any of it. That doesn't make me a defender. I have no opinion.
junc, did you ever consider the possibility that here on a New York Jet message board that (generally-speaking) no one really gives a 'bleep' about North Carolina, about Duke, about the ACC in general or about a provincial, backyard UNC-Duke feud that was once referred to (absurdly) as "the greatest rivalry in American sports" ? Me, I've no dog in that Tobacco Road trailer tempest-in-a-teapot. http://ww.bluedevilsreign.com http://www.tarheelblog.com
Duke was down 10 midway through the second half at MSG but they won by 9 for Kryzewski's 1000th win St. John's just had a long scoring drought, couldn't hit a shot. The announcers didn't mention it, but it's probably fatigue. They only play six guys regular minutes.
I was texting with a buddy during the game....I was like just wait for the fatigue to set in. I figured it was going to happen earlier in the second half, but alas it still happened!
doesn't matter against some of the inferior competition but you can't expect to beat anyone good like this They didn't even have a rotation today. It was five guys and that's it. Bench stats: 0/1 FG, 0/0 FT, 1 rebound, 0 assists, 0 steals, 1 block, 1 turnover, 2 fouls, and zero points (redundant due to shooting stats, but worth saying)
I personally think it's the stupidest rivalry in all of sports. The rivalry is played up by ESPN so people don't turn their TVs off after football season until baseball starts. No one really cared about the rivalry until the mid-late 80s when ESPN started propping it up. When I watch them play all I see is d-bag kids falling over themselves trying to get on TV in both arenas. They don't care who wins just that they look cool on TV. Maybe that's relatively common overall in college basketball - fine- but that just tells me the rivalry is nothing compared to rivalries in other sports where fans actually live or die by the game. Both schools are also pretty shady. The fans like junc who prop up their team as much more compliant than the other is such a pathetic exercise that for some reason has become common in the rivalry. That is so incredibly lame and fake that it turns me off to the rivalry. I don't think it compares to many traditional football rivalries at all, pro or college, there are pro baseball rivalries that beat it out and even other college basketball rivalries that are better IMO. The whole thing seems forced to me.
it destroys all other rivalries over the last 35 years or so. Nothing is close from the coaches to the players to the atmosphere to the stakes. The 2 programs have combined for 8 Nat'l titles and 2 FF's. Nothing matches it. You want an example of a forced rivalry? see Yanks-Sox, the most overblown rivalry in sports where one team dominated another for Century. what CBB rivalry is even close to Carolina-duke? name me the better rivalries?
I'm not even a yankee guy but Yanks-Sox is a much better rivalry. it's no contest. Even if I dismiss the history aspect, which I shouldn't have to because that's a major part of a rivalry, its a better rivalry in the moment. Here's one difference. The Yankees and Sox can play a relatively meaningless mid-August game that depending on how it plays out might not have people nationally giving a shit but will be talked about for an entire year in the two cities with WAY more distractions. Duke Carolina will have ESPN on campus for a week to hype up the big matchup and try to make people nationally give a shit. After the game people nationally won't give a shit other than to watch the ESPN highlights and people in the South start thinking about NASCAR and college football spring practices/recruiting- both sports which are more popular in the South and the state of North Carolina in general, and its not an enduring rivalry in the area until ESPN comes back next february. This also isn't Duke/Carolina's fault but a college basketball rivalry like theirs it is no contest to a professional rivalry IMO where teams can swap or take players from one another like a Yankee/Sox rivalry. Also, they can't compete with college football rivalries even IMO. With so many one and dones in college basketball its increasingly difficult to see it as a rivalry when players aren't there long enough to both develop a real hatred for the other team or have players that fans can rally around in the rivalry. Does Marvin Williams, 6 months removed from high school and one foot in the door of the NBA really hate Duke??? Conversely -does Duke fans who less than a year ago were begging Williams to play for them really hate Marvin Williams who will only play one season against them ever?? College Football rivalries also have better histories & traditions and are much more enduring.. All in my opinion of course
Tell me why it is better? you have no clue about the Yankees-Sox rivalry w/ a comment like that. there have been very few one and done guys in the rivalry. CFB is more popular as football overall is more popular. that doesn't make a rivalry better. we are all entitled to our opinions but I am waiting to hear which rivalries are better.
junc: I care about college basketball. I just don't care for North Carolina. Not that I like Duke either but at least if I were a student at Duke or a Blue Devil alumni, I would be able to sleep at night. I've tried to figure out what's with your Big East bias: crazy as it sounds, is it because the Big East was mostly born out of the northeast (including a New York City school) as opposed to a mid-south conference of state-funded schools? Or, speaking of state-funded, are there more insidious forces in play here, namely anti-Catholic bigotry given that much of the Big East is comprised of smaller Catholic schools (esp. given UNC's history of sanctioning anti-Catholic bigoted exhibitions)? Yeah, that' the ticket!! A Nation with the Soul of a Church: Anti-Christian Bigotry in America Gary Bauer St. Anselm's College Manchester, New Hampshire At the University of North Carolina, the Ackland Art Museum featured a series of photographs entitled "Christ in New York." One showed a bearded man standing over the bloodied, partially naked body of a woman. The photo was entitled "Christ Sees a Woman who had Died During an Illegal Abortion." This was a meditation on he political and social oppression of woman fostered by the Catholic Church. ^^^ Cigar for the Browning Naglemeister - and quoted for truth. Alabama - Auburn makes that ESPN-promo-scripted Tobacco Road tempest-in-a-trailer-park look like child's play. We all saw this one coming. Too bad Lavin's reaching all around the country for recruits and either losing out to some other school or having them end up ineligible for one reason or another. Time for him to start recruiting in his own backyard more, starting with burying whatever 'hatchet' there is rumored to be with the coach of Christ the King H.S. right in his own backyard. Too bad Mark Jackson's is possibly on some NBA team's radar (even with the Kings looking like they're now gunning for George Karl) and that Fran Frachilla (who had a great connection with Riverside Church, Gauchos, etc.) got too big for his britches (as well as losing his "bizarre free throw shooting practice" mind).
I was a Carolina fan growing up in BE Country when the BE actually mattered back in the 80s. everyone loves St. John's, Syracuse or Georgetown so I have a healthy dislike the for the BE. I don't get why you are bringing religion into this and what a cut and paste job w/ no context actually means when it comes to this discussion?
That is an idiotic standard to measure a rivalry. By your own measuring stick, UCLA vs USC is FAR superior as they have 11 National Titles and 20 Final Four appearances combined.
all those titles are UCLA and most when they were paying players. Carolina has 4 Nat'l titles and 11 FFs, duke has 4 Nat'l titles and 11 FFs. It's not just the winning, that is a part of it, both programs are usually top 10 and competing for Nat'l titles, FFs and ACC titles.
Hey Hackett, couldn't agree more btw - IMO an underrated rivalry that doesn't get the ESPN hype machine is the Philly Big 5 rivalry. Great, enduring tradition in that series. Philly is a GREAT basketball city, one of, if not the best all around basketball cities in America and the Palestra is a basketball mecca. And in some of those schools that rivalry is what they live by. You won't have ESPN endlessly trying to get people to care about it though. And in Philly they don't need ESPN there for the fans to live and die by the rivalry.
That's not what you said, is it? BTW, should a UNC fan really be making judgement about shady school practices?
"When the BE actually mattered..." - Cute (if needlessly snide). "Everyone loves St. John's, Syracuse or Georgetown" - Wrong. Syracuse-G'town hated each other. St. John's (Carnesseca) and G'town (J. Thompson) hated each other. Besides, why would people rooting for their school (or schools in their NYC and/or Northeast neck o' the woods) anyway rationalize your not-so-healthy dislike of them? Why am I bringing religion into this? Because i. I have a sense of humor and, ii. because I am not a self-hating New Yorker who has a healthy dislike for a local team (unless it's a rival of another local team, e.g. Knickerbockers/Nets, Rangers/Islanders/Devils, etc.) and pooh-poohs New York-related rivalries e.g. Yankee-Red Sox. So much local self-hatred....so I'm thinking to myself that there must be some insidious forces in play, thus the 'religious' angle. (btw, don't let the multiple green smilies give away the facetious intent .......sheesh.....) Cut-and-paste w/o context? Once upon a time, there was this well-known comic named John Lovitz who was on Saturday Night Live. His 'mealticket' line was: "that's the ticket!" But then again, he was on "Live from NEW YORK, it's Saturday Night Live!" so I should not have expected you to know that--my bad. Lastly, you NY-hating grouch, here, don't say I didn't give you nuthin' : http://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurants-g49021-Chapel_Hill_North_Carolina.html
