I disagree with that. Foles is much more proven than any potential draft pick. Foles would instantly fill a need. I'd do a straight up swap in a heart beat.
Hiring a chaperone is what you do when you messed up and drafted an unreliable player who is causing long-term problems by being unreliable. It's not something you plan to do. You don't want problem players on your roster. Especially in the messed up media market the Jets have to deal with. Rex and Sanchez both got outed for various off the field indiscretions. Where else does that happen as a normal thing? Roethlisberger got outed on the Steelers at least once for an alleged rape but he already had that reputation hanging over his head when they drafted him. Then got caught (or whatever) again as a pro.
Apologies, I actually messed that post up somewhat. I do want Foles, but I also want picks. Foles + This yr's 1st rounder + next year's 3rd which becomes a 2nd pending Foles performance and I might look to make that deal.
You are wasting your breath or rather keystrokes. These folks are waiting for the next Peyton or Luck to (i) emerge (and he's probably in high school and (ii) be fortunate (or unfortunate) enough to be in a position to take him. Let's not gamble on getting the next Rogers, he's too much of a project. _
On the specifics here, of course the Jets should try to get as much as they could get. But realistically how much should the Eagles be willing to give up in addition to Foles? I agree more or less with 1985 here. It's not just that Mariota is a gamble. I think with Foles and the proper use of cap space in FA, this team could be instantly competitive. Meanwhile core players like Mangold and Ferguson are getting older. For the Jets to get Mariota, I don't see how they put him in there right away. And if Mariota is the only move at Qb, then doesn't that mean the Jets play Smith by default? On a very personal level I find that notion sickening. Perhaps I am looking at this too subjectively, but I dont think so. I keep thinking of Mangold, Ferguson and some of the other older players. How much time do we want to wait around for a Qb to develop? Having said that, if the Jets can't get a vet of Foles's level, but they can get Mariota, I would do that, and then get Moore in there to hold the fort. Smith can compete with Simms for third string, and if he wins then Simms would be better off elsewhere, anyway. But it does sound like Kelly wants Mariota, whehter he should or not. I kind of get it, to be fair. It's not just that both are from Oregon's program. I think Mariota is seen by Kelly as being the kind of Qb he wants to show the NFL that he's the brightest and most creative offensive mind in the NFL, even if that's only in his dreams.
I'm not disagreeing with this philosophy, but you have to ask yourself this question, do you believe the Jets want to be w/out a first round pick? I say hell no. Eagles have to give something else up. Otherwise, I don't think the Jets make the deal.
Stokes, To be clear I get where you are coming from here. It may well be if the Jets can get Mariota, and there are no better options in FA or by trade, I certainly take a chance with him rather than hoping some lower round prospect can be developed. I dont know Mariota as well as you do, not by any stretch. But while it is fair to see him as a bit of a project, I also understand the point you share that he is very promising. But at this point someone like Foles is more a sure thing. Is Foles's ceiling lower than Mariota's? I get the argumetn that it is, but in fact we do not know that. Add in as I said that Foles would start right away, and that's enough for me. No more Smith. Get a speedy wideout, a new OG, two cb's and an OLB, and this team could be a strong contender on Opening Day.
This is where you are wrong. I would be perfectly content with the next Flacco. The next Matt Ryan. After all this you still don't understand.
This off season the Jets will I think be in a strong position to fill their major holes mostly in FA. I know you have posted consistently that you want to use the first round pick on Cooper, but there's more than one way to upgrade wideout, and FA is an option. All this discussion is based on the premise that Mariota falls to the Jets. At that point, assuming Philly's interest in and willingness to trade Foles, with or without other compensation, but of coures the more the merrier, for our pick, the question is quite simple. Mariota or Foles? In that scenario we have to give up the sixth pick, since that is what Philly would want. Is Foles worth the sixth pick in the draft, even up? We can have that discussion, and I would not say those thinking no, not enough, are clearly wrong. But for the Jets, right now, where their needs are, what else they have in available cap space, you have to think long and hard before you choose some other option than Mariota and Foles. And as between them, for the reasons mentioned, I prefer Foles.
We can't address every need via FA. I think the offensive line needs help, so does the secondary, receiver. Even so, you are forgetting the potential Muhammad Wilkerson extension. 6th pick, I think Cooper would be a great addition to the team, he would be the BPA at that point. Put Harvin back in the slot and now we have 4 receivers that can operate in Chan Gailey's system. I think Mariota falls in this draft. Titans won't take him because they want to see more of Mettenberger - he fits the Titans vertical offense. He will be available OTC at 6 for the Jets. Now about this trade. #6 for Foles to me is not good enough - while Foles is a good QB, I think you can get more out of the trade. They have the 20th pick, I think if they give us that pick - I would consider it. I wouldn't swap it though, especially if a player like Cooper is OTC.
To be clear for the trade we are talking about, Philly throwing in this year's second rounder, and maybe next year's second, would be a fair trade. But if they played hardball, I would have a hard time letting Foles get away.
Who knows. Teddy Bridgewater fell and he was a better pro prospect. Stock on the Spread QB is down right now.
I don't think your being fair to the guys who don't want a 6th round pick to be a QB project that may or may not work out. Guys get it stokes, but it's your hard line in the sand that is not allowing for what others are saying to get through. Why is it that this argument is not being made about Winston? Because Winston is not going to sit on the bench, he is going to be starting come September, he is ready to play in the NFL, put Winston on a well coached team and he will succeed, everyone knows this about JW, off field issues aside. Stokes, I'm with you about the Jets needing a franchise QB, I know for a fact that Geno is not the answer and he is the main reason why the jets had a terrible 2 years. No one will convince me otherwise about him. The argument is not being made against MM by some on this board because they don't want a franchise QB, he could be the next rodgers, but he could also be the next Heath Shuler. Personally I believe Spread offense qbs are not being considered hot commodities to teams in the NFL, especially a team that has the 6th overall pick. There have been many QBs who had incredible potential and smarts over the past decade who were taken with high picks that have bombed, that's the issue that guys have with Mariotta. I personally don't want him to be selected by the jets, but if they do, I hope they bring in a veteran to replace Geno and hold the fort down until MM is ready.
In regard to the question about Winston, I am persuaded that unless something else comes out about him and the rape allegations, the logic is that Tampa will pick him.
To be clear this is all based upon the notion that the Jets have not addressed their Qb need in FA or by trade prior to the draft. While the more i think about it the more I like the idea that Philly might do some kind of Foles for the sixth pick deal, there's a lot that could go wrong with that. So maybe the Jets need to really look at some of the vet options other than Foles. I think Foles would probably be best for the Jets, though, of all reasonable prospects in that group.
And both those guys were projects so you wouldn't have drafted Ryan at 3 and you wouldn't have drafted Flacco at 18. _
No I get what you are saying but I guess my main point is I don't care if we're a strong contender on opening day 2015. I'd rather be a strong contender from 2016 through 2028. _
