did you miss this sentence? he hasn't been the GM since the 2005 season, do you want me to add Tannenbaum picks and moves too? Robertson was GREAT in 2004, his career was derailed by injury but he was GREAT in that 2004 season. McCareins was a key player that season as well, not every move has to be a superstar. hurling insults does not help your weak arguments.
I DID miss that sentence. But McCareins was NOT EVER a good WR for the Jets. And, really, as regards Dwayne Robertson, aren't 1st-round draft picks supposed to be 'GREAT' for more than a single season before their knees give way? You make my arguments for me: 1) McCareins sucked. Poll 9 out of 10 Jets fans and then do the research. He did nothing for the Jets. 2) The Jets traded up for Robertson and he was a flop: he MAY HAVE HAD a good season or two, but there were ZERO NFL-recognized accolades (like 1st-team All Pro, Pro Bowl) for him. And, again, good scouts don't select players with degenerative knee conditions. Further, it's unclear how listing FREE AGENTS supports the argument that the Bradway drafted well. Hell, isn't the majority of your list free agents?!
he absolutely was very god for us in 2004. Robertson didn't last but he wasn't Gholston either. I wouldn't poll Jet fans, most don't have a clue. The GMs job is to acquire talent, there are many ways to acquire talent.
This is the gist of your arguments: "he didn't last, but he wasn't Gholston..." in other words: "he wasn't anywhere close to the best, but he's not the worst..." I, for one, have much greater expectations for my team and its leadership. And, yeah, I expect there shouldn't be but ONE Gholston on any scouting director's resume...But, really, Bradway has TWO: Robertson had a few decent-to-good seasons. The only problem: The Jets took him with the 4th overall pick in the draft. My expectations are that you get more than a couple of 'not bad' seasons for that kind of draft capital. Robertson lasted all of SIX seasons in the NFL!!
Yeah, he was a key player that lasted all of six seasons. Injury prediction is a component of good drafting. Some of it is luck, but, you kinda make your own luck at some point, don't you? I mean, we've said that A LOT recently with Bradway picks: two CBs, Milliner and McDougle, both of whom came with significant history of injury and both lost to injury for the majority of their NFL careers. And, please, Robertson's seasons were nothing that I would say were spectacularly productive. He played on a DL with John Abraham and Sean Ellis, both of whom lasted much longer and were more highly recognized in terms of Pro Bowls and all-NFL ranks. They were drafted in the teens of the first round (draft successes, but I'm not sure Bradway drafted them) vs. with the 4th overall pick. I'm not sure, but I believe that the Jets traded up to get him. So, NOT a success story, given the capital expended and the production derived, at least in my opinion.
there were injury concerns about Robertson coming out and TB can be blamed but he was GREAT in 2004. wacth some '04 games and watch him play. too bad he couldn't stay healthy then we changed coaches and went to 3-4 and he as gone.
We get ONE whole 'great' and by great, objectively one could say "good", season out of the 4th overall pick and that is supposed to be a credit on the ledger?! Thank GOD you are not in Jets management (anymore). Cause, basically, anything that's not the worst of the worst you label a success. And the worst of the worst you completely ignore. The Jets traded a pick to get to the 4th overall spot to chose Robertson. So, it wasn't just the 4th overall pick, it was other pick(s) as well. And for that, they got ONE "great" season where they ALMOST reached a title game (in regular terms, they lost in the Divisional Round of the playoffs in an away game). You, Sir, are the King, no, Count of Low Expectations!!
but you are acting like we have done nothing but pick bad player after bad player. That's untrue, I realize you have the highest of standards and nothing but a SB every year will satisfy you but those of us that still live on Earth understand how difficult it is to win and are thankful we have had more chances during this stretch than at any other time in our history.
we drafted pretty well to stay competitive for a long time while adding other pieces along the way. 12 of our 22 starters were original Jets for the '09 run and '10 run NE has 145 of 22 this year Indy 11 of 22 when NYG won in '07 they had 12 of 22 drafted, in '11 13 of 22
Please, if you're going to argue, don't misrepresent what I've said. I never said "SB every year..." So, that's a dishonest tactic that you've employed frequently, like when you listed players that Bradway didn't draft when discussing his drafting record. And, please, what planet do you live on where FOUR CONSECUTIVE NON-WINNING seasons is "having more chances" than at any time in our history? Personally, I would go with the Ken O'Brien years and when we had a Sack Exchange and quality skill position players--Wesley Walker, Al Toon, Rob Moore, Freeman McNeil, Joe Klecko, Mark Gastineau, et al. as perhaps a time when I was consistently excited about our chances. And that Bill Parcells 12-4 AFC Championship Game season...I was never confident that we had "the goods" during the time Bradway had significant influence. His drafts were underwhelming and his GM stewardship horrible: remember the Santana Moss, Kareem McKenzie, and Laveraneous Coles fleecings? You've done a better job defending his record--which, to be sure, is damning with very faint praise--than his actual record is. And you seem doomed with exceptionally low expectations: we have 6 road playoff games, therefore we are good. Dwayne Robertson had a "GREAT" season with 53 tackles and 3 sacks. McCareins was a good receiver and he had all of 7 TD catches for the Jets.
The Ken O'Brien years where Ken never won a playoff game? Rob Moore who was nevre part of a playoff win and only part of one playoff game(we made it at 8-8)- this got you consistently excited? fleecings? what fleecings? NYG overpaid Kareem, we traded Moss to get Coles back which I am sure you loved as most Jet fans did- I did not. I liked Coles back, I hated giving up Moss. I am doomed w/ exceptionally low expectations yet you remember the Rob Moore and Ken O'Brien years fondly. The reason we got home playoff games w/ O'Brien was b/c WC teams could host back then, now they can't. You may want to brush up on your history. '81-'86- 4 playoff apps, 1 title game app. good Rob Moore years- 1 playoff app at 8-8. Parcells years- 1 playoff app though it was a great year it was only one year and if you want to see bad drafting check out BPs drafts. was Al Toon a good player? McCareins had 7 TDs in 64 games, Toon had 31 in 107
How is this true when you can't name a single skill position player NOT NAMED LEON WASHINGTON that we've actually drafted under Bradway? And, how can you say this when for FOUR CONSECUTIVE YEARS, we haven't had a winning season?? Where the talent has eroded overall? Where we had to rely on a mid-season trade to address need we've had since Stephen Hill was selected? Where the majority of recent picks being counted upon to buttress the team have either failed outright or been lost to injury after they were known to be greater than average injury risks? The new GM pretty much has indicated--as has the departed ST coach--that the talent on the Jets is below average. That falls directly on the scouting department and the general manager. Guess who has been employed in both of those roles? The guy you keep defending... The Jets under Bradway's watch have perennially been an older, slower team. Teams that have been held together with free agents vs. young, dynamic, exciting teams. IMO, the Jets coaching has gotten more out of them than the talent should have produced. But there's still a big difference between 6 road playoff games and a successful franchise. Put another way, the NE Patriots have more consecutive AFC East Division championships than we have playoff appearances. So, I would say this is NOT the best of times for this franchise.
Bradway didn't draft Leon, Tannenbaum did. Is Santana Moss not a skill position player? Lamont Jordan? the FO has done a poor job restocking talent in recent years, why is that TBs fault? Bradway is not the GM anymore, why does he get blame for bad picks and no credit for good picks?
Ok, in your world Justin McCareins is comparable to Al Toon. And Global Warming is a hoax by the Climatologist lobby!! Seriously...I just can't argue this farcical notion. I DO recall the Ken O'Brien years fondly. The Jets had a talented team then, across the board: a Sack Exchange that really had few parallels in NFL history. QB-to-WR connections that were among the best in the league (the Jets used to outscore people then). I think the single most exciting game in Jets history was played between Ken O'Brien and Dan Marino: a 51-45 OT game, where Kenny O'Brien threw a game-winning 45-yard TD pass to Wesley Walker. And the Sack Exchange helped the Jets to a 10-1 record before injuries and a terrible roughing the passer penalty derailed their championship hopes. Yeah, I'll take that single YEAR over any Terry Bradway as GM year, by FAR!! And, btw, which Terry Bradway are you defending: the guy who traded up to the 4th overall pick for a one-year wonder and who let the Washington NFL franchise steal our two best WRs or the Bradway who recommended such gems as Vernon Gholston, Stephen Hill, Vlad Ducasse, and Brian Winters?
Well, A) the guys he's recommended, as Director of Scouting, have a high percentage of not working out, especially in the second round. B) you've given him credit, sometimes for people he hasn't even drafted. BTW, what is Lamont Jordan's history with the Jets? Its' one thing to mention a name, quite another give some context into his career and why you've mentioned him. Santana Moss is a guy he drafted, and then let get stolen by the Washington NFL franchise. So, not really a long-term success story for GM Bradway.
Nope, I've monopolized this conversation enough for one day. Sorry board!! I have to head out...thanks for the discussion. Truly fun!!
if all these guys weren't working out how did we win so much? Lamont was an excellent backup RB, made many big plays. Moss wasn't stolen. we didn't believe in overpaying for WRs and rather than overpay for Moss we went and reacquired Coles.
