There's a saying that you clearly don't recognize: correlation does not prove causation. there are a lot of variables that you continually ignore beyond Mangini leaving, the fact that the team actually drafted in worse position probably being number one, and the trade ups for other players being another. And, let's too be clear. Mangini didn't just leave. He was fired. He wasn't lured anywhere; he was let go. dismissed. And then there's the notion that the drafts that Mangini participated really weren't all that spectacular, especially if you actually consider the absolute bust-both in talent mis-evaluation AND player development--that the Gholston pick was, an indictment on Mangini's ability to purchase the groceries and to make an omelet. Finally, you can't rightly keep saying "nobody is saying that mangini was the leader..." and then make the case that his leaving was THE significant factor in the drafts being poor because that argument is in essence saying he was the leader.
Actually, not only were those not ignored, but they were mentioned specifically in previous posts. Rex had high picks as well, so it's not like he was picking significantly lower than Mangini every single time. Sanchez was 5th overall, Coples was 16th overall. Neither was worth a pick that high. The best player Mangini drafted was 13th overall, and then he drafted another really good player in the 2nd round, so the draft position doesnt explain the correlation. Also, as already mentioned, Jets with Rex traded up as well (for Sanchez, for Greene), so it's not like that was a Mangini-only thing. As far as Mangini being fired, that had to do more with his coaching, not his eye for talent which is what we are discussing here. And yes, you can have a lot of influence on the draft without being the leader. Again, drafts are done as a team thing, but within that team, the coaching staff's voice is one of the loudest.
" Wow, it's as if you're actually in the meetings. But you aren't; just speculating. He could easily have been fired for BOTH the whiff on Gholston AND not being much of a coach, the position he was hired for. And, really, was it "his" eye for talent or the eye of the scouting department and the GM? Cause if it were his eye, why hasn't anyone ever employed him specifically for it?
Don't know about your job but at mine when I f%ck up one my primary job responsibilities, my boss could care less if I did so as a result of listening to a colleague or subordinate.
Monday can't get here soon enough ! I won't believe any of these rumors until I see it,,,,,Woody and The Jets have gotten it wrong for so long now this is how I gotta think and feel !
Here's the early field: General manager candidates on the Jets' radar By Rich Cimini | December 26, 2014 9:00:31 AM PST For the second time in two years, the New York Jets are expected to be in the general manager market. Unlike the previous search, which culminated with the hiring of John Idzik, the job will have greater appeal to potential candidates -- assuming the new GM is empowered to hire his own coach. A list of top candidates: Chris Ballard, Kansas City Chiefs, director of player personnel -- He'll be a hot commodity. Ballard is bright and personable, with a background in scouting and coaching. He spent 12 years in the Chicago Bears' organization before joining the Chiefs' front office in 2013. The Tampa Bay Buccaneers came after him last year, but he withdrew from consideration because he wasn't going to have final say on personnel. Scott Pioli, Atlanta Falcons, assistant general manager -- He has the most complete resume of anyone on the list. Pioli was Bill Belichick's right-hand man from 2000 to 2008, helping to build three Super Bowl winners. Bill Parcells' son-in-law was a two-time NFL Executive of the Year. He left the nest to become the Chiefs' GM from 2009 to 2012. The team was only 23-41, but he drafted or re-signed nine Pro Bowl players. His football acumen is top notch; his managerial style reportedly chafed people in the Chiefs' organization. Nick Cesario, New England Patriots, director of player personnel -- He became the new Pioli in Belichick's kingdom, helping restock the Patriots' roster. This is his 14th year with the Patriots, and there are those who believe Cesario wouldn't cross Belichick by jumping to the rival Jets. He interviewed for the Dolphins' general manager job last year. Brian Gaine, Houston Texans, director of pro personnel -- He interviewed for the Jets' vacancy in 2013. Gaine is a Parcells disciple who played briefly for the Jets and worked his way up as a scout. He has held front-office positions with the Dallas Cowboys and Miami Dolphins. Gaine is well-respected in scouting circles, regarded as a rising star. Ryan Pace, New Orleans Saints, director of player personnel -- He worked his way up from the bottom of the organization. Pace has spent most of his time in pro personnel; he's never been a college area scout. A year ago, the Saints denied a request by the Dolphins to interview Pace for their general manager vacancy. Tom Gamble, Philadelphia Eagles, vice president player personnel -- Gamble was thought to be the early frontrunner in the Jets' search in 2013, but he didn't knock the interview out of the park. It's hard to quibble with his resume. He has worked under Bill Polian and current San Francisco 49ers general manager Trent Baalke. Duke Tobin, Cincinnati Bengals, director of player personnel -- There's no traditional general manager in Cincinnati, so he works closely with coach Marvin Lewis. The Bengals are notoriously cheap -- see the skeleton scouting staff -- but the roster is filled with talent. Jerry Angelo, former Chicago Bears general manager -- He has been out of the NFL since being fired by the Bears after the 2011 season, but Angelo is a highly respected football man who built an NFC Championship team in Chicago. He interviewed for the Jets' job in 2013. Eric DeCosta, Baltimore Ravens, assistant general manager -- It wouldn't be a list of candidates without DeCosta. The Jets sought permission to interview him in 2013, but he declined. He's had many suitors over the years, but he's considered the heir apparent to Ozzie Newsome. Eliot Wolf, Green Bay Packers, director of pro personnel -- It's just a matter of time before Wolf, only 32, becomes a general manager. You can't beat the DNA; his father is former Packers general manager Ron Wolf, who could serve as a consultant during the Jets' search.
Umm, because no one gets fired for missing on 1 draft pick? Good god, man, did Gholston sleep with your wife or something? Let it go... Teams miss on high draft picks all the time, even #1s, so what? Rex's Sanchez whiff was higher than Gholston's. And Mangini's overall drafting record was very solid, unlike Rex. He wasn't hired for his eye for talent because he already has a job, which is a coach, which pays more than a scout btw.
Firstly, the day the Jets get an A for a draft has yet to come. didn't come when Tannenbaum was GM hasn't happened under Idzik. Yeah, when you miss so absolutely and you really haven't blown the doors off of other drafts, it gets mentioned. Deal with it. You're damn right he wasn't hired for his eye because he ain't got one. He was hired to be the Jets head coach because some idiot had a brain fart. They quickly discovered their mistake. Someone else repeated the mistake and, again, quickly realized Mangini is good for...coaching TEs. Next!!
Woody will be sorry to fire Rex. If he is wiser, he should find a GM who will work with Rex and give them two years to turn this around. Seattle won with a great D, good running game and a smart qb who converts third downs. Thats Rex philosophy. It can work if you give him corners. This Idzik experiment was the most stupid I have ever seen. This guy doesnt know that you cannot win without corners and thus sitting on $20M. Also, there no written rule that a GM and a coach has to hired or terminated at the same time. Go Rex.
You willing to go 2-14 next year to get stacked? Pioli was canned in KC after hs 4th season as GM when the Chiefs went 2-14. Some situations just take time to resolve.
Willing? No. Expecting? Yeah, I'm expecting a shitty year next year pretty much regardless of who's hired. I don't think we're anywhere near contending.
I agree with this assessment in general. I just think the Jets are going to have a really hard time managing the fallout of bringing in a big name GM candidate and then going 2-14. If you bring in a guy who thinks that he has to make the Jets respectable immediately then Idzik's plan gets swept aside and we get a bunch of late prime free agents next year and maybe go 7-9 to 9-7 (or 2-14 with bad luck) and then we're in trouble again in 2016 and we didn't get anything substantial out of the exchange except losing most of the cap space on a window that was never going to open anyway. I think Idzik should be given the chance to dig the team out of the mess his way. That makes 2015 a referendum on whether you need a clean sweep or not. The Jets current solid starters under the age of 28: Chris Ivory Percy Harvin Sheldon Richardson Mo Wilkerson Damon Harrison ... The Jets current solid prospects under the age of 28: Jace Amaro Calvin Pryor Dee Milliner Oday Aboushi (we hope) ... With the exception of Wilkerson and Harrison those are all Idzik tagged players. They're all Rex tagged players. If Idzik and Rex are both gone next year the quicksand under the Jets talent base becomes much soupier and the rebuild of the roster much murkier. That's just reality. Look what happens to an NFL roster when you being in a new GM who then hires a new coach. Huge turnover in the first couple of seasons and the loss of people previously seen as core talent. Herm replaced Groh with Bradway becoming the GM and we lost James Farrior, the teams #1 pick in 1997 immediately. We lost both starting CB's and starting safeties within two years. Mangini replaced Herm with Tannenbaum becoming the GM and we lost Jonathan Vilma, the teams #1 pick in 2004 within a couple of seasons. We traded John Abraham the oft-injured DE who was also the Jets most dynamic defender. We lost Erik Coleman. Rex replaced Mangini with Tannenbaum remaining GM and we lost everybody in the secondary except Darrelle Revis within a season. We didn't make major changes in the trenches because the Jets had made an enormous free agent investment there in 2008 and that investment slowly degraded over the next few seasons. When Rex and Idzik go everything will change again and my best bet at this point is that the only name in the current front 7 that we'll recognize in 3 years is Sheldon Richardson, and yeah I said the only name.
So what you're saying is hiring an established name will mean more pressure to win immediately? I don't think that's the case. It's clear this team is dog shit and fans won't be happy until a Championship is won anyway. I also think Wilkerson will walk out the door if Rex is canned. I think the only way we're in the hunt next year is if this coaching staff stays in place and they find a vet QB plus a secondary. Implementing new playbooks in all three phases and purging the roster will mean a 2-14 next year. You could argue it's for the greater good.
Firing Idzik would be a stopping the bleeding move. Another Idzik off season could dig a hole too deep to get out from.
I'm not willing to hire this clown. He who also brought in 2 turds as Head Couch, and tapped the phones of one of them. He also sold his sole for likes of Matt Cassill, who looks like a West Virginia inbred, and cannot QB. Being Bill Parcel's son-in-law didn't help him much there in KC. I think there are better candidates. And why all this Rex nut hugging this morning, he is gone, get over it and move on already.
Wilkerson will go where the money is and if offered a contract to his and the team's liking, he stays put. He has 1 more year on his deal, he's not risking anything. He tears something up and he misses out on some guaranteed money. Would be shocked if Wilkerson heads into the 2015 regular season without a new deal.
Been hearing this morning that Casserly has been calling around for Rex's replacement and that Rex has cleaned out his office already. So if there is any truth to that at least we know that is going to happen, no word on the status of Idzik's office
Milliner is going to be fine in a Cover 2, which is what the Jets will likely be running moving forward. Pryor will be fine at strong safety. Injuries could derail either of them but that's the NFL for you.
