It's difficult for me to believe that Custer has inside information on Woodys thoughts regarding the draft. Everyone is just piling on to what is becoming an easy story to get ratings on, or Twitter thumbs up on.
I'm not understanding the majority of your logic. If Mangini was soo great in picking and developing players, why was he fired? Is it because he really WASN'T all that great at either and the majority of players despised playing for him? I understand: you love Mangini and hate Ryan. But, let's be clear, ONE of those two coaches actually coached some playoff wins. The other is named Mangini. And your notion that the two of them, Tannenbaum and Mangini, were good drafters ignores a giant whiff and other minor whiffs that invalidates that notion. Heck, you haven't even once actually mentioned any good players you feel this long-since fired tandem actually produced and developed. And, please, saying that they got Brick and Mangold is hardly any great accomplishment as these guys were drafted in the first round and the need was so great, you know, after Mangini developed nobody before them. And, again, you seem to pin all the faults in drafting and free agency on Ryan, while absolving the scouting department, who probably had more input, and the GM, who ultimately had the responsibility and, should have, the accountability. It's fine to SPECULATE that Ryan had significant input. But there's really a lot of conflicting evidence, evidence you haven't actually produced. It's one thing to have an opinion. But it's quite another thing to actually produce evidence to support it. You haven't produced Evidence One that Rex Ryan had any significant input beyond what head coaches normally have, that is to say, he was part of a committee that provided choices that the GM ultimately had to choose between. Accountability for a team's talent: GM. Accountabiliyt for what happens on the field: Head Coach. It seems simple enough but your opinion flies in the face of that: where the GM is accountable for the draft and FA successes and Rex Ryan is responsible for the whiffs because he was/is the "common denominator". That, and you've seriously inflated the prowess of both Mangini and Tannenbaum in the drafting and player development areas. They were fired for cause: the Jets sucked when they were let go.
Mangini WAS better at drafting than Rex, but that doesn't mean he was a better coach, drafting and coaching a team are two different things. Also, from what I understand about the drafting process (which I am not an expert on or anything), the teams compile a draft value chart going into the draft, which has the value of each player, and then use that to select the players with the highest value still remaining in the early round, and then maybe adjusted for need. To create this chart, everyone gets input, scouts, coaching staff, bradway and his team, the GM, etc. So it's not like the GM single-handedly decides who to draft, the coaches have significant input. As an example, there was an article in the offseason about how they chose McDougle. It was Dennis Thurman who first saw him and brought him to Rex's attention, telling him this guy was special, and Rex watched tape and agreed. So you can see, coaches can have quite a bit of input into the draft process.
please, if I hear Mangini was great at drafting players again...Please give me an example...cause the example I keep coming up with is Gholston, who apparently, Mangini had significant input into. Again, having "significant input" into something is quite a lot different than having "ultimate responsibility" for it. And when you start saying coaches "drafted" players and there's a GM, it suggests that you're really not accepting what the actual responsibilities of each position are.
Anyone else find it ironic that if they decide to can Idzik 2 years into the job, they brought in a guy who got 5 years at his last GM stint, and did not have a single .500 season there (unlike Idzik who had one last year)? They should hire Matt Millen as the next GM to continue that line of reasoning.
I said better than Rex, which is different from great. He had a year where they drafted Mangold and Ferguson, and another where they drafted Revis and Harris. So by Jets' standards, that's pretty good drafting.
So, in your world, Mangini drafted them. Absurd. Did Tannenbaum coach the Jets those years? They drafted two OL in the first round and neither busted: yay!! They drafted Revis and Harris (a trade up) and they were great players: yay. Only then they got rid of the good one and overpaid for the stiff: not so yay. Seriously, can you stop saying the coach drafted a player? Cause it's really not in the job description for that role.
Well I'll be soon unemployed so, so if woody reads my message again, I'm available for hiring as a head coach or any coaching position for the NY Jets. Thanks.
Also brad smith, eric smith, leon washington, dustin keller pretty much the core of the play off run. Mangini had his problems, player evaluation and being a teacher of the game was his strong suit. He lacked in stratgey though
Two things: Where does Vernon Gholston fit into this narrative of excellent drafting and player development? fairy tale...and a poorly articulated one at that. Never mind, it's a dead horse: like Mangini's career, it's dead.
Where did I say that the coach drafted a player? That's what you are saying to argue with yourself i guess. I said they drafted, as in the entire organization, including Tanenbaum and Mangini. But as was already pointed out to you, that entire organization remained the same between Mangini and Rex, with the only difference being the head coach and his staff, and somehow they went from good drafting years to terrible ones. Yeah, they whiffed on Gholston, so what? Teams routinely whiff on first round picks. That same year they got Keller and other players, so at least it wasn't a wasted year, unlike Rex's first two year with Tanny.
Ok, I'll keep arguing with myself ;-) My opinion is that the draft records are not all that dissimilar. Somehow, in your elevation of the previous regime's drafting you keep leaving out or giving less than appropriate weight to the Gholston whiff. I bet if you added up the draft values of the players taken under both coaches and GMs, they'd be similar. Because, if you have to trade up to get someone, you've spent more than if you just get them where your natural spot is and it leaves the cupboard relatively bear, as we've seen. And I think that there were/are enough whiffs, especially on second-rounders, throughout Jets history; the Tannenbaum era is no different. Finally, it's not "good" drafting not to have whiffed in the first couple of rounds. It's expected and, I think, "average". Good drafting is when you don't whiff AND you uncover uncommon talent in the later rounds. I don't know that any recent Jets GM has done that routinely, if at all.
You can spin it any way you like, but drafts with Mangini were much better than drafts with Rex. You wanna talk first round whiffs, we had 5 first round picks under Mangini, we got 3 impact players out of those (Mangold, Ferguson and Revis), one good player (Keller) and one bust (Gholston). Under Rex and Tanny, we had 4 first round picks, one impact player (Wilkerson), 2 busts (Sanchez and Wilson), and one guy who's somewhere between good and role-player (Coples). So, 3/5 impact players vs 1/4, 1/5 busts vs 2/4. See the difference?
Darrell Revis Joe Haden Nick Mangold Alex Mack Brick Ferguson TJ Ward Leon Washington Unless you want to give full credit to Tannebaum and George Kokinis for those. It's obvious Mangini can evaluate corners after landing Revis and Haden. Also struck gold at Center twice with Mangold and Mack.
Nope. Thats all the g.m. its just a coincidence that mangini was around all those players. Just like its a coincidence the drafts rex have been around have had lesser results
I think Rex is a much better coach than Mangini but a shitty ass scout in comparison. Mangini's staffs drafted Revis and Haden. Rex's got Kyle Wilson and Dee Milliner. It's only logical to assume the scout team, GM and coaching staff come together to make these picks. Why would a GM make multiple picks the HC didn't feel he could use?
