Winston is miles ahead of Russell talent wise...football IQ and ability... his day to day IQ now that's another story... the Raiders fell in love with his pro day numbers as they always do and jumped the gun.
2+ years of college film should be enough to make a determination. The combine should be used to move players down with other players rising to fill the gaps created that way. The pro days shouldn't even exist.
Funnily enough, Bridgewater's poor pro day single-handedly plummeted his draft stock to nearly the 2nd round. I bet Vikings fans are pretty happy pro days exist.
This thread is exactly why Jameis Winston is such a tough player to predict. There's comparisons as wide as Ben Roethlisberger all the way down to JaMarcus Russell and they're all warranted. It's tough to know whether he's going to suddenly have a go getters mentality in the NFL and work his ass off to try to become great, or if he's going to try to ride his god given talent and piss poor attitude into being a bottom tier quarterback that 'could've been.' It's ashame that he displayed such poor judgement in college and put himself into a position to get in trouble while he easily could've been a shoe in for the number one pick if he hadn't found himself in a bunch of bad situations. Watching his on the field play, he definitely would benefit from another year in college. On the field wise he has pretty good mechanics although a longer throwing motion that is thrown at a 3/4's arm angle some of the time, and he sometimes winds up a bit too much. Still, he has enough arm strength and good footwork to the point where it really isn't a cause for concern, especially since he's mobile enough to move around and big enough to break tackles. The thing that's really excellent about Winston is the fact that he gets on top of his throws. Meaning that he can throw the ball over a linebacker and in front of a safety because he has good touch on his throws and is big enough to the point where the ball drops into the receiver rather than low liners. I think the best case scenario for Winston is he goes to a team that doesn't have a lot to lose. Jacksonville or Oakland may have been better landing spots for him although most doubt that they will select a quarterback. NFL teams are also at a disadvantage because he has never lost and no one knows how he would react to a couple of bad seasons at say 4-12 and even an improvement the next to 7-9. Is he going to throw his teammates under the bus? Not to say he's done that in the past but there's really no way of knowing how he takes losses. It could certainly work to his advantage in bringing a winning attitude to a franchise that needs it, but it could also work to his disadvantage if he's immediately unhappy and whining to the media a lot like Cam Newton was and still can be in Carolina. He's constantly complaining about how he wants to stop losing and all that. He also didn't come with the large amount of red flags that Winston did in the way of legal troubles (rape and point shaving), even if people did question his attitude due to his own scandals. I for one, think taking money in college is a lot less of an offense for Cam than all of Winston's off the field problems in college. The problem is that this city is crying for a quarterback after 45 years of ineptitude and the entire spotlight of the biggest city in the United States is going to be on him. That's not something you want for someone who already displays cockiness and a bad attitude. People can dismiss the big city thing for Winston as much as they want, but for a kid that certainly wants to go out and party, living 20 minutes away from New York City is only going to delay his development. When you hand someone the keys to a franchise you need to know that they're fully committed for 8-9 months out of the year and not thinking about picking up girls and running up a bar tab. He could shock everyone and come into a new franchise with a great attitude. It's just too much to risk on a top 10 pick especially when franchises pick in the top 10 you NEED to hit on the pick or it's going to set your franchise back especially if the quarterback is not in place and trusted. For me, I really don't see Winston as a middle of the road quarterback. I think he's going to be excellent if he wants to be or he's going to fall flat on his face. He might go down as one of the biggest boom or bust picks for that exact reason.
If I am going to gamble on an a QB I would rather gamble on Sam Bradford and draft Cooper than Winston.
I still think Bridgewater is not a slam dunk long-term starter in the NFL. I'm not sure he has the juice to get it done at the next level of play. Playing in a dome will help once the Vikings get back inside. He's the best of the 2014 QB's and most likely to start for a decade but he's nowhere near as good as Philip Rivers was at the same age as an example. I think Bridgewater was a #16-20 pick before his pro day. Most of the damage had already been done. The pro day just cemented the fact that he wasn't a top 10 talent.
That's fair, though I think the pro day hurt his draft stock particularly because he didn't throw at the combine, if you remember. But yes, I'm not sure about Bridgewater either, though I think most Vikings fans are pretty happy with him after Ponder/Cassel/Freeman, etc.etc. He very well could have (and probably should have) gone earlier in the draft.
Well, you led yourself in the wrong direction. I have watched nearly every game Winston played in. He is going to be a stud QB. Basing a decision on TD-INT ratio only, tells me you need to invest more time watching FSU and less time looking at his ESPN profile page.
Anyone else like Garrett Grayson? Doesnt have to be a first rounder, but I wouldnt mind getting Cooper and then Grayson in the second or third.
Man.. That is just a reach at finding a way out on being called out. I am a college football fan.. I have watched Winston a lot this year, especially with the way the Jets have been playing. You can say it all day that he is going to be a stud, yet you ignore the obvious. He does not make good decisions, it's that simple. He also struggles heavily with his accuracy. If you know anything about college football and evaluating QB's coming out of college, you know that the TD-INT ratio is a big deal leading up to the NFL. If you are making those type of errors in college, that is a massive red flag in the pro's. There is no other way around that. The INT's he has made has came from poor throws or poor decision based throws. His footwork in the pocket is very suspect at times as well. All year they have played from behind, striking fire late to barely get by without a loss. The main reason they get in those holes early in games is because of the poor play of Winston, it's not like that defense is horrible and puts Winston in a touch position every game. That has not been the case at all. You can try and disregard my argument if you want but I'm not debating questionable stats with you here. We are not talking about his completion % or anything like that, we are talking about a very basic stat that is clear cut and to the point. It is a strong indicator of the type of decision making ability a college QB has, especially when things are tough for that QB. Winston has failed this year.. I don't care about his comeback's late in the game, I don't care that they have won every game they've played, I only care about the player when he is being considered a potential Jet. I personally believe he will absolutely fail in the NFL. He could be good, I just don't think he will be.
He's graded far better than any of the 2013 QBs. Jets still screwed themselves by not taking either Bridgewater or Carr - that I believe was the discussion. Hell if the re-draft happens, Carr and Bridgewater prob go in the top 5.
INT's aren't always about decision making. I mentioned his accuracy issues as something he needs to work on, but it's something that can easily be fixed with good coaching. What you can't teach is the intangibles he has on the field. His incredible ability to step up big late in games. He has tremendous composure in the pocket when everything is collapsing around him. He has incredible arm strength, can make every throw, has incredible competitiveness and will to win. On the field he is everything you would want in a QB. He's also known to have tremendous football I.Q. Downplaying his ability to come up big late in games is absolutely foolish. John Elway made a career out of coming up big late in games, often after hurting himself earlier in games. He's a two-time SB winning QB and a HOF'er. Winston has some things he needs to work on. There's no question about it, but there has never been a QB to enter the NFL without things to work on. But you are basing your decision that he's going to be terrible in the NFL on one stat and correctable issues and downplay his strengths way too much. You clearly have an agenda against Winston.
That's the one place where you make your mistake in that if Winston's problems are in accuracy and not decision making then he's destined to fail. I'd have to go back and watch each of his interceptions to determine which it is but accuracy and ball placement is either something a guy has or doesn't have. Throwing guys open is a part of accuracy and one of the biggest reason Geno Smith has struggled. If Winston has the same problem then we'll get another Geno Smith.
On some of his INTs, the decisions he's made were awful. He's also playing with an inexperienced receiving corps [outside of Rashard Greene and O'Leary]. Majority of them are freshman receivers. Winston has excellent ball placement skills. Far better than Geno Smith who really didn't exhibit that during his days at WVU. He's also able to mentally overcome mistakes throughout the game which is a good trait.
I agree that the decision making problems are a bigger problem than the accuracy problems with Winston. I was merely responding to the post made by Murrell in saying accuracy is one of the least coach able traits for a quarterback and it's really something you either have or you don't. Decision making comes through more coaching and understanding of the system while being on the same page as the wide receivers, while some of it is also god given. I think if he was throwing late because he was misreading the plays right away it'd be a bigger flag than trying to fit balls into a tight window that aren't there which is what Winston seems to do at times.
