Not to single you out, but there is a line of thinking among many Jets fans here, that troubles me. I've bolded it in your post. This thought process that something is ok, just because another team made a similar mistake, or another team is just as bad as we are. That is such a losers mentality. I'm sure after being a fan of this team for so long and enduring many tough years, that even mediocrity sounds appealing at this point. Getting back to mediocre should only be an early step in this long process. Yes, good teams make mistakes, miss on draft picks, over pay free agents. However, no good team or good GM does all of that in one offseason. I'm sorry, but its not enough for the Jets right now to walk away with 1-2 decent players in a draft. They are so behind the curve from a talent standpoint that they HAVE to hit on more picks then other teams. They HAVE to sign the right free agents. If John Idzik is not capable of doing that, then get someone better. No more excuses, and no more settling for mediocrity. Jets fans deserve better.
for me, the proof is the fact that we have exactly the same needs as when Idzik took over the team and our record is worse. what other metrics should we go by?
I was trying to be "fair and balanced"...Yeah, MORE needs. And what signings he has done are questionable to ridiculous: Questionable: Kerley. I like Kerley, but he's part of a sub-par collection of wideouts. Why lock him up when you really need a talent UPGRADE? Especially when you're all about "cap savings" over winning. Ridiculous: Patterson. A nutcase from jump street when way, way better options were available and, actually, reasonably priced. Absurd: the number of quality wide receivers available in the draft and he comes out with bupkiss. Not only bupkiss, but several draft resources spent on bupkiss. I'm not sure, but didn't HE actually draft Stephen Hill? The fact is, the man knows nothing about evaluating talent, less than nothing. and his grasp of GMing seems include only the notion of trying to bargain hunt. the Jets are likely to win 4 games this year while he as over $30 million sitting on the sidelines. How fucking ridiculous is that?!
Another plane just flew over Jets practice facility with the fire idzik banner,There's a pic of Rex and Kerley looking up at it. http://nypost.com/2014/12/17/fire-john-idzik-crew-flies-new-banner-at-jets-practice/
I think you are asking for the almost impossible. Immediate great results. The Jets were an unexpected 8-8 his first season. And also a truly unexpected 3-11 (so far) this season. The guy has been there for two drafts and the selections haven't been terrible. Even the 2014 draft (which was given a B grade as I recall by ESPN) is still too early to totally judge. What I said is just this: I don't see grounds for firing yet after only two seasons. Give the guy at least three drafts and maybe even a new head coach before throwing him under the bus. I was just in Northern Cali and I went into a deli and heard two guys discussing the 49ers HC situation. They thought it was ridiculous to fire Harbaugh after one bad year (which isn't as bad as the Jets). This shows the impetuousness of organizations esp when things go south plus some of decisions (like the 49ers) are made for personal reasons. Also his trades haven't been so bad. Esp. Ivory and Harvin. He hasn't shown (to me) to be irresponsible which is what the media wants him to be. To make moves that will kill off the cap and possible put the Jets under the 8 ball in future years. He is fiscally conservative something they hate. Great orgs (like the Patriots and Steelers) don't usually overspend esp for skill position players. For that reason I like what I see. At least enough to give him more time.
I don't expect "immediate great results". However, I am tired of the fanbase making excuses for the GM and coach when bad decisions are made. We shouldn't be comparing our drafts to the Browns, Raiders, Jags, Redskins, Titans, etc. and saying, 'See! Those teams missed out on those players too! Those teams made the same mistakes!'. Not saying that's what you said, but its a general reply when talking about Idzik's draft. Our criteria and expectations for Idzik shouldn't be, "not terrible". The other problem with keeping Idzik is our ability to attract a good coach to come here and replace Rex. I can't see potential coaches looking at our situation and thinking their is stability in the front office. The guy picking the HC might be fired next year. That's not appealing to coaching candidates. Fair or not. Unfortunately for Idzik, he hasn't shown enough to commit to him for 3-4 years.
I think there is no problem attracting a good coach even with Idzik as GM. I think if he's still GM and Woody gives him the power to choose the coach he'll take an NFL guy, probably a coordinator he knows from his time in the league. Look if they fire Idzik I won't lose any sleep. But if you want to have a good org that people respect you don't fire people after just two years on the job. That's what gives the team a bad rep around the NFL (like the Browns). In spite of the bad press who portray Idzik as a guy who doesn't know what he's doing and is a disaster this basically has no validity.
Sorry, I'll just have to respectfully disagree with you on this. If I was an up and coming coaching candidate, and I had a handful of teams biding on my services. I would probably rule out a team whose GM was almost fired a few weeks earlier. The guy who vouched for me, is the same guy who might not be here next year. And there is some validity to the bad press Idzik is getting. It's called our 3-11 record this year. A 3-11 record, when our team had how much cap space, and how many draft picks? Not saying Idzik should have delivered a Super Bowl this year, but the arrow should be pointing up, not down after having all those resources at his disposal. It's a cutthroat business. It may not be fair, but it is what it is. I don't think the Jets are going to be looked down on by the rest of the league if they fire Idzik. There's enough justification there for it I believe.
So if it's a personnel issue than they should fire Idzik and keep the coach. But imo it's the other way around. Going into the season with the personnel we had nobody thought we were a 3-11 team. Many of us thought we'd be at least .500.
Not really an apples to apples analogy when talking about Harbaugh. Harbaugh is going to get fired because he does not know his place within the 49'er organization and he's allowing those personal issues to impact his team. You want to talk about Ryan and fielding an unprepared team...that has been the 49'ers for the last 5 games or so. I know...I live in N. California and that is ALL anyone can talk about. Let's set aside the draft for a moment. Because...you are correct...drafts are hard to gauge any immediate impact for the most part. The GM's job is to field a competitive team and to address any and all need areas, within reason, that must be handled prior to the season beginning. Let's take a look at some of the areas he addressed. QB...the most important position on the team and, as any Jets fan will agree, needed to be addressed in some form or fashion. So he drafted Geno Smith...even as he was dropping like a stone, put on an air of superiority at the draft and then acted like a spoiled brat he drafted him. Geno came in and promptly shit the bed...for the most part. The 8-8 record was in spite of Geno and not because OF him. Any Jets fan will agree on those points as they are facts. Year two has been an unmitigated disaster. And...he brought in Vick and broke is number one "rule." There was ZERO competition. None, zip, nada... Big time fail on the QB front. He addressed RB...the ONE area that I would have to say probably needed the LEAST amount of attention. My opinion of course as others would disagree but definitely a strength of the team and not a weakness. From the moment Rex Ryan arrived to the NY Jets we have had a pretty stellar running game. Break Even...he didn't need to touch the RB position which makes it a wash... Although, if you count the couple of idiots who drugged up and never saw the field that actually takes it down a notch to less than even. Offensive Line - Giacomini was brought in and has been a HUGE disappointment as far as I'm concerned. He's not been as bad as, but almost, as bad as our other "penalty machine" in Colon. He's had his fair share of drive killers. Since we're leaving the draft out of this that discounts (don't get me started) Winters and Aboushi. Another huge FAIL. Offensive line has been the second worse unit this year...second only to the Secondary. MASSIVE FAIL to upgrade. WR...one of two spots on the team that really needed addressing...leaving the draft out of it (can you give a grade of less than an "F") we have only one notable addition in Decker. Unfortunately, a WR requires a decent QB...see paragraph 3... He's actually been OK but we needed a lot more than decent/OK and, as far as numbers go, a lot more bodies. I'd give him a C- here and if you do include the draft...see again...can we give out a grade of less than F? Secondary...oh my...the REAL pooch screw of the whole John Idzik era to date. You know, the hilarious component of it all is when people talk about McDougal. Umm...yeah...he is a ROOKIE...and no one had any idea of how he was going to pan out. Not like we picked him up in the first round...but I digress...we are NOT talking draft here. This area of the team was not just a FAIL but an EPIC FAIL. He 100%, full blown...shut the door on his office FAILED here. Low balled every FA...didn't even approach others. Failed to sign our own better than average corners back etc...the list goes on and on. The insult to injury in this whole fiasco is the one damn guy he DID bring in didn't even make it to the regular season!!! Fuckin' AWOL on the team...wow!! Antonio Cromarti is looking pretty damn good about now...isn't he? Love how everyone said he had a "down" year last year and forgot to include the hip injury in the discussion. Antonio is laughing his ass off right about now. But anyway. Milliner...oh my...he's the NY Jets "Sam Bradford." IF this asshole ever sees the field then we'll have an idea of whether or not he's good. The NFL is littered with the corpses of players who could never stay healthy enough to actually make an impact. Hell...at least Wilson gets on the field. He may fuck up on 90% of the plays but we KNOW he sucks! First rule of a GM...know your coach and know what his team needs to be successful. This is the one area on the team that is the most glaring when you talk about Idzik sabotaging Ryan. Because that is what he did. To be quite honest...wouldn't matter the coach...this secondary is a sabotage to ANY coach really. Yeah...the draft picks may be too early to tell...but it doesn't look promising...especially when you consider, what, over HALF aren't even on the team anymore...or close to it... And I don't want to hear that bullshit of "well...they are still in the league!" No, if the Jets drafted them then they should still be in the league on the Jets! Couple his draft with his piss poor handling of every other area and I say..."Don't let the door hit you where the good lord split you!"
"I don't expect "immediate great results". However, I am tired of the fanbase making excuses for the GM and coach when bad decisions are made." I think the "fanbase" is about two or three delusional people who will be convinced soon enough of their misplaced loyalties, unless Idzik does a 180 turnaround from the first two years he's had. But why shouldn't you expect "immediate great results"? The team had some immediate needs that, if addressed adequately, would likely have shown those "great" results. I think if the Jets had an offensive line that could pass protect in obvious passing situations their record would be better. But the guys we have, and that Idzik brought in, have pretty much sucked. I'm going to say Breno is about as ok as Howard was. Maybe a little downgrade. But the guards we have are utterly horrible. I don't think anyone can dispute that. And Idzik is responsible for both of them. One spot has more penalties than any other OG and the other spot has been a turnstile when pass blocking and is not a run-blocking strength. And, again, if the Jets had significantly upgraded their talent at the WR spot--and there were two distinct opportunities to do so, the FA period and the draft--along with having just adequate interior line play, I think we would be seeing immediate great results. But he didn't significantly upgrade the WR spot. Decker, for all his hype, has had ONE 100-yard game. And has had his share of drops and injury. Has he outperformed Santonio Holmes? Barely or not at all. To be fair, Idzik did pick up Harvin, but that was long after the horses had left the barn and the Jets were out of the playoff hunt. It remains to be seen if Harvin is retained. So, hardly a yeoman's job addressing the offense. On defense, really all he had to do was get a CB. What did he do? In FA he let all the good ones go and signed a known nutcase, who didn't even make it out of training camp. He was unlucky on the injury front, but there's a saying, "you make your own luck" and the players who were injured had a history of injury. So, really, we still are left wondering if we'll have a decent secondary. Let's also look at how the Jets best player, arguably, Mo Wilkerson still hasn't been locked up long-term. IMO, that's not a good strategy on a talent-starved team: to have its best player's tenure uncertain. Finally, I'm struck by the notion that the Jets have $30 million in cap space yet could possibly field a 3-13 team. I mean, if saving money is the most important thing, why pay anyone? We certainly didn't get our money's worth with the roster we currently have. I didn't expect "immediate great results". But I surely expect "progressively better results" and what I'm seeing is "progressively WORSE results".
My sentiments exactly. Idzik had all the resources needed at his disposal to put together a competitive, young, and talented team. Instead, we have a 3-11 team that looks worse then the one he inherited. Under different circumstances, I might be more willing to give him another year to prove himself. However, with Rex certain to be fired, I just think it would be disastrous to bring in a new coach to work under him. No respected coach is going to put himself in that situation. Just like no respected GM is going to be saddled with a coach he didn't chose. Instead you're gonna limit your options and be forced to chose from a shallow pool of candidates. Just like what happened with Idzik.
Did you realize that the 2011 Seahawks draft was considered one of the worst drafts in football? In hindsight it ended up being one of the best, all I'm saying is be careful with judging the draft less than a year into it. If the jets Fire Idzik and keep rex I would be upset, but at the end of the day I'm still going to root for my team, and give the benefit of the doubt to who ever they bring in.
