I get your point here, and I have no firm opinion about Mariota's prospects to become a successful NFL Qb. I also am quite skeptical of Qb's coming out of college who have not played a pro style offense, and the related concerns about running Qb's who inevitably either make the difficult transition to being a pocket Qb, or who present too great a risk of getting hurt. But Stokes feels that Mariota can make that transition which, it is important to add, is one that should occur over time, with him sitting behind a vet for at least a year. Perhaps Stokes is wrong about Mariota, and you are right. But I don' think it is simply a matter of saying Mariota has not played a pro style O, and therefore he will not be able to. I also am very skeptical of your alternative scenario for addressing the Jets' need at Qb. One of my concerns about the Vick signing is coming to fruition, unfortunately. And that is that at his age Vick is not a medium term solution, let alone a long term one. AT BEST, AT MOST, he might play another two years in the league. His situation is a poor fit for counting on a midround pick at Qb to develop, and if as is more likely not develop then go to another draft, another Qb, and hope that he develops. At some piont the odds go up either the Jets endure another poor season of Qb play, or have to once again try and get a suitable vet Qb in FA, or both. In short your proposal seems to be a poor fit with the Jets' Qb situation right now. Regarding the OL, I also get your point here, but Aboushi's apparent development takes some of the pressure off there that otherwise would exist. And as for the safe bet vs. other kinds, I also agree with Stokes that the Jets should take their relatively higher draft position this year as an opportunity to take a shot at obtaining a franchise qb. But I will leave the debate whehter Mariota is that person to others.
Yes, this is my real concern about Stokes's suggestion, which is another reason I want Idzik fired. If he's still around, i doubt he's able to pull that off.
I disagree that you fire Idzik. He deserves a chance to show what he can do. His first year the team was 8-8. He's owned up to mistakes by cutting players he drafted (all of whom btw are either on NFL active or PS rosters) and benching Geno. Show me a team who hasn't drafted players who didn't make the team.
I'm not saying Mariota can't or won't be a successful NFL QB, it's just to me he tends to drop his eyes and be more of a run first or run as a main option QB in the lines of Cam Newton and RG III. And this is where personal preference comes in to play, I prefer pocket passers, plain and simple. I do like Pocket passers who have mobility and the ability to run but I want them always looking down field as their primary option, kind of like Luck for example (though a combination of his mobility and arm is a rare combination, or Alex Smith of KC (who is the other side of the 'QB Arm' equation). Even in Seattle where you have a primary option running QB in Wilson the success of his read option is dependent on him having Beast mode behind him to force defenses hands on the read option. I know the NFL is currently enamored with the current fad of the read option, and it does wreck havoc when it's working correctly and the QB is healthy. Regarding the O-Line. Yes Aboushi is stepping up his game, and if one guard position was the only problem there wouldn't be a worry. The problem is the other guard position is also a black hole, not a a supermassive black hole but still a black hole. The Right Tackle is average at best and Brick is no longer the top 10 OT Brick but the middle of the pack OT and is in decline as far as LT's go. In fact the only O-line position still playing above average or better is Mangold, who is still one of the top 2 or 3 centers in the game. You don't win the big games against the good teams with average or below O-Lines, the battle on both sides of the ball are won or lost in the trenches, and yes i'm old school here. And there's another reason to focus on the O-line, if your going to have a running QB then you need O-linemen who are agile, fast, and strong enough to pull and get outside to lead block...the Jets don't have that either. No, taking an OT in the top 5 isn't a sexy pick, but in my book it's the smart pick....Accepting Mediocrity is not an option in my book and building out of that requires building a good solid foundation. Now if there was an Andrew Luck type can't miss player in this draft it would be a no brainer. On the field I think that Winston is pretty close to being a sure thing franchise QB....but his off field issues and apparent 10 cent head more than off sets that. And I grant I'm taking a long term view here, and I'm not saying either QB is a sure fire bust, but I do feel both QB's are a reach for a top 10 pick, too much risk in either one to risk a flame out.
Yup. And Jax is not pulling the plug after 1 season. If we're drafting third, we're in the catbird street for Mariota. If we need to sweeten the pot and the cost isn't prohibitive, then I'd move up. Going from 3 to 1 is not going to cost an RG3 deal, or even a Sanchez deal. Oakland or Jacksonville are not going to want to be out of the top 3. They aren't moving to 6 or 8 or 10 for extra picks. _
I could be 1000% wrong because as they say, the draft is a total crap shoot. Never any guarantees--well maybe Luck and Peyton in recent memory. But the "not having played in a pro set offense" is a total red herring IMHO. Because he has not yet been asked to do something does not lead to the conclusion that he can not. He may founder at it, but he may excel at it. Fear of not having played in a proset offense is tipping at windmills to me. If he gets to the combine and shows an aptitude for taking snaps from center and smooth dropbacks, while it's not against live competition, I have to hope someone will be able to judge they learning curve. For all we know, he's been drilled at it every offseason since he was in 10th grade. Oregon's mission is not to turn out pro ready QBs, it's to win. He may be close to pro ready, but as I've said all along, I want him to sit at least a year. We may end up a 2 or 3 win team this year and then return to relative suckiness at a 6 or 7 or 8 win team for the next 5 years and not have a shot at a top 3-4 pick that we may have this year. We can't blow (relative term) the third pick in the draft on an OT or a WR or a CB, as important as those positions are. If Mariota weren't in this draft and John Hannah or Calvin Johnson or Revis were in the draft, I might think differently. _
Yeah, that's what i heard. Since Nagle did not say what his negative opinion is based on, I tend to discount it. Carr looks like a good fit, a good prospect. It's perhaps too bad he's had to play his rookie season, at least so much. I hope for his sake it does no damage to him, but at this point he looks like a keeper for Oakland. Of course things could change.
I don't see the love affair with Carr. I haven't seen too much of his play but I did watch the SD game where he looked absolutely atrocious. I find it hard to believe that a new regime with no ties to him would pass on a legit franchise QB prospect because of him. Either way I can't see either way Marriotta doesn't go number one. I'm a lot closer to the trade the farm for him camp than letting some other team get the next great QB.
I understand all those points. Ftr I am not as down on Winters as some here. I think he was showing improvement over his last couple of games before getting hurt, and his injury is one he likely comes back from. Colon has to go, though. If Mariota has the fundamentals to play the pro offense, he sounds like he's worth the shot Stokes describes.
Maybe, but I'm really not in love with any of the QB's in this draft (unlike last year), too much risk and too many $$ tied up for 4 years on a top 5 pick to gamble on, and I definitely would not trade up for any of them. To me taking either Mariota or Winston in the top 5 is like paying Ferrari price for a box that may contain a Vette or may contain s SMART car, and trading up to get either is like paying Lamborghini price for the same box. To me the smart move is, and will remain, trade down if possible and take an OT, or maybe trade down and then take one of the QB's if either is there. to me if you have a top 5 pick you don't roll the dice and hope for the best. (edit) This is the mistake made with Sanchez, the Jets traded up in a QB thin class to draft a QB who had a lot of question marks (despite being the 2nd best rated QB in the class, remember it was a very thin class). It's a QB driven league, but you can't let that drive you away from actual value....1/3 of the starting QB's in the league today came in the 2nd round or later.
Unless we roll the dice with Winston, trading down seems to be the way to go on this one. Whether or not we trade down it looks like there is value and depth at OLB in this draft. If we take what the draft gives us instead of reaching for a QB or OT just because we need one I think we need to strongly consider a pass rusher. If we are on board with the idea of taking a pass rusher, is there one guy we just have to have (justifying a top five pick)? How far can we move down and still expect to get a quality pass rusher in this draft?
I think the answer to that depends on if Rex is still the head coach after this season. He has shown a like for a particular type of DL/LB. I like Beasley but he's more of a speed rusher but he's still expected to go top 10 if not top 5. there are several rushers I like in the 2nd and third rounds. LB is definitely an area of need as the LB corp as a whole is getting long in the tooth. But honestly I think fans would riot if the Jets took a first round defensive player again. (edit) I mean 8 of the last 10 first round picks have been on defensive players and 11 of the last 15.
Oakland is a graveyard for quarterbacks. Tony Sparano insists on starting Carr but he doesn't move their offense. Why not start Matt Schaub. But that would be too logical for them. They might even win a game.
Latest I could see the Jets trading down if they want a decent pass-rusher is the late teens, early 20s. Right now we are 5th behind Tampa Bay and the Titans. It's going to be interesting because every team so far in the top 5 has a lot of the same needs. If the positions stay as they are now - Jets would certainly have to trade up to get Mariota. Raiders - Cooper, or Randy Gregory Jags - Best offensive lineman, or pass-rusher Bucs - Mariota, Winston, offensive lineman Titans - Mariota, Winston, offensive lineman Jets - ???? I would def trade down, but if we have to stand pat - I'm taking the best offensive lineman prob. The key is Zach Mettenberger, does he show the staff he's the man? Also, whom do the Bucs want MORE at QB? Mariota or Winston? I think the Bucs like Winston more.
Have you seen the whole of that team? You don't go 0-10 by just poor QB play, that takes a full team effort in every sense of the word. It's hard to go 0-16, only 1 team has done it. in fact since moving to a 12 game season there have only been a total of 2 teams that have ever gone without a win or tie, and if you include no wins but do include ties then that goes up to 3 teams. (I'm not including the strike shortened '82 season since only 9 games were played. It's as difficult as a perfect season (regular season) which has also only been accomplished 2 times since the league went to 12 games (no ties). You watch how they lose games and you just have to shake your head and go WTF? They've lost games in ways I've never seen a team lose a game before....it's sad.
How about an OT like Andrus Peat or Brandon Scherff with the 1st pick, the Jets have neglected the O-line with quality talent for too long. D-Brick is on the downside of his career.
i think if Mariota's out of reach or underwhelming trading down is our only best bet left. trading down might be a bit easier if Cooper is available, I've had this scenario rolling in my head where the browns trade their two firsts or a first and a second to us go get him. they seem like a WR away kind of team, Gordon's not reliable with his antics, and really they don't have many other needs. one more pick in the top 2 would be exceptional for us. otherwise he or a lineman would be the pick I guess.
They have some good players. And most critics think they had a very good draft in 2014. I haven't seen that many of their games. But the ones I've seen Carr hasn't been able to move their offense. His stats aren't that bad. 13 Tds and 9 picks with 3 fumbles. But I'd go with Schaub. I think he gives them a better chance to win.
