Jameis Winston will not be a second round pick. He (and Mariota, for the record) are light-years ahead of Geno Smith the prospect.
No question but one could hope that he droped to our 2º round pick wich is a high one. He is the best QB in this draft on the field but off the field concerns could make him drop. That said i have a hard time beliving that just saying it would be ideal scenario. Get and elite prospect OT OLB and Winston in the 2º again i know it isnt gonna happen.
It's completely fair to disagree. Again, I like Mariota. The one thing that annoys me about your argument is that you say you can't simply ignore the risks of Jameis not maturing. This is a 100% valid point. There is a risk he never matures, becomes a Jamarcus Russell type player, and busts. At the same time, whenever someone brings up the point that MM plays in a spread offense and has never played in a pro-style offense and never has to really read defenses, you refuse to acknowledge the risk that maybe MM doesn't adapt so well to the pro-game, and that MM might struggle mightily when it comes to reading NFL defenses. It certainly is possible that he struggles to do so, and it certainly is possible that he will read an NFL defense quite well when he is asked to. However, it is a risk, just like it is with Winston, and a very valid one to think about.
I know this is not addressed to me but FTR I believe the bold are valid concerns, it's the argument that we must be worried that he's never taken a snap from center, I feel is hogwash.
Why do folks keep suggesting this? It's like BWay last year saying Manziel and Teddy and Carr would fall to the 3rd round. Winston is NOT falling to the second round. Might as well hope we can get Amari Cooper in the second round if we're going to play fantasy. _
When you run the ball as much as the Jets, your ass better be proficient at taking snaps under center. Running backs prefer QBs to be under center. Ask McCoy from the Eagles.
I've never said Winston can't mature--I really don't know how much of Winston's issues are immaturity or are even all that bad. Just stupidity really. And I don't think his issues have anything to do with J Russells--Winston is going to be a very good long term player in this league. Russell was a fat undedicated slob. That's not Winston. But he HAS had the issues and you can't deny them. With Mariota you're asking me to disprove the negative. Because Mariota hasn't been asked to do something does not mean he CAN'T. It's kind of like saying--well, you never know if Mariota is going to steal some crab legs. We already KNOW what Winston has done and as supremely talented as he is, that's got to be a REAL red flag. We don't know if Mariota's lack of pro style experience is a REAL red flag or just a hypothetical one. _
While you make a fair point, not knowing whether MM's risk is real or hypothetical is a risk in and of itself.
Yes, but in the offseason, he'll have private workouts showing smooth footwork, have Oregon and former coaches vouching for his ability to adapt to any system and QB experts reviewing film etc and then a FO will make an informed yet risky decision. He'll have the chance to show he has some aptitude for his issues. Winston can have 200 people swearing on the bible that he's the greatest kid in the world but he can't disprove he's not trouble. _
First off you already know my position on the whole snaps from center thing. That aside, who's to say we would continue to be a run oriented team with Mariota at the helm? When you have a guy you believe to be your franchise guy, you better make sure before you draft him that he is a schematic fit with what you want/plan to run or be prepared to cater your offense around his skills set. While the Jets completely whiffed on the former with Geno, they certainly did the latter. Geno sucks but it's not due to a lack of effort by the CS to work around his deficiencies. MS may have had the better on-field supporting casts at times but he never had a CS and FO committed to his on the field success to the point the OC was willing to reinvent a whole new playbook around what he does well. People can hate MM all they want but he tried his best to make Geno look like a legitimate starter in this league, and on occasion fooled some into thinking he was.
Regarding the bold, you do know we play in New Jersey right? We need an all-weather offense. We don't play in a dome. The running game will always be crucial for the Jets as long as they are the NY Jets. I totally respect MM, and he's no scapegoat. We don't have to talk about Geno everyone knows he sucks and lacks ALL fundamentals. Mark we unfortunately screwed him over.
Marty has always liked running out of pistol-esque formations. Not to say he wasn't trying to make it easier for Geno, but he's not the sole reason for us not running more plays under center.
Pro style offense , go trough his progressions , sit in the pocket with poise, same accurary as mariotta , not so prone to injury by the way he plays. Not a first read guy.
While I'm on board with Mariota over Winston, I don't think it's simply a matter of disproving the negative as you say. The idea of drafting a QB with a high pick, you hope he's ready to be a pro. Being in a spread offense in college is not just a matter of "well, hopefully it can translate". Having no experience in college with it is certainly a detriment to his future, and maybe he can pick it up quickly, but that's no guarantee. It's just a totally different game. And they have to evaluate what they see on the field in an offense that is not really used on the NFL level. He spent all of his time at Oregon learning how to play the QB position effectively for Oregon, and that is nothing like playing the position effectively in the NFL. At least with a college QB who doesn't play in a spread system, you know they have some understanding and some experience with a pro style offense. At the same time, it makes everything easier to assess for a scout. I think you can justifiably penalize a guy for not playing in a pro system due to these uncertainties. Might not be his fault, but college isn't the minor leagues and their job isn't to cater to the NFL. That's a lot you're putting into a pick if you have more uncertainties than certainties, so I think it's reasonable to shoot for more of a sure thing. With all of that said, I still think Mariota has a high floor, despite the uncertainties with the system. He appears to have all the ability in the world, and give me a guy with the intangibles and work ethic he has over Winston any day of the week. Because it's not just about Year One. Look at Drew Brees. He was mediocre at best until he dedicated himself to the game. Not the best season to really discuss him I guess, but the guy is still a stud QB now. No one was saying that back in San Diego. If you have the talent and the work ethic, you'll eventually get to the point where you're a great player. Mariota has IT. And I think he has a high floor strictly because of that, with a very high ceiling as well. New York might not be the best place for him with this fan base, but I still think he's gotta be the pick. And I'm just not that impressed with Winston any time I see him. Sure, he has a high ceiling, but I don't see that high floor.
Valid points all around. Let's be clear though, having not played in a pro-style offense has never caused a QB to slide in the draft in the same manner as their physical tools and intangibles do. It may give one QB the edge over another of equal TALENT but that's it. Scouts are paid to be able to look beyond the system and project based on the QBs skill sets. While some fans can fret to ad nauseum over it on message boards, teams won't hesitate to grab a player of immense talent and character like Mariota because of the system he ran. Geno, for example, dropped not because he played in the spread but because of some of physical and emotional short-comings. The spread is spreading, pun intended, it's permeated all over college and even more so at the high school football level. If you are one hung up on your QB having been in a "pro-style" offensive system, you'll be swimming in the shallow end of the talent pool.
Can't disagree with anything there. The problem I have with some of the folks here is that they are making the illogical leap that because he hasn't been asked to do something in college he may not ever be able to do it in the pros. And some will point to Geno as Exhibit A. If you watched Geno in college and you watch Mariota now there is no comparison between the two. I see Mariota as a smart QB within his system and while I'm not a scout (and neither is anyone else here), I'm assuming that pro scouts are going to be able to work him out and determine whether he has an aptitude to pick up and excel in a pro style offense. Geno to me always was and always will be a total dope and I think the Jets were surprised that he was there at 39 and took him notwithstanding that he was a dope. I don't get that from Mariota. And I do not want to take an inferior player because at 20 years old they've had a year or 2 of pro style experience when I can get a superior player and within 2 years develop him into a pro style QB. I think arm, athletic ability, accuracy and a natural intelligence are more important than less accurate, less athletic QBs with pro style experience IN COLLEGE. _
Holy crap, well said. Of course there will be folks out there who only have eyes for Cooper who will continue the amorphous and undefined mantra "he's raw" "he's really raw" "he's got a rawness about him" "rawness permeates every pore of his being" "we can't take such a raw prospect" because as you know, most other 21 year old college QBs are incredibly refined but a kid who has been competing at the very top of NCAA football for the past 2-1/2 years is "really really raw". And your point about the spread is spot on--it's all over the place. I'm not taking an inferior talent because he's played a year or 2 in a pro style offense. _
